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robert lawrence kuhn is a veritable

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truth seeker

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and much of the modern proliferation of

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analytical and intellectual discourse in

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video form into consciousness into the

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origins of the universe into the

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relationship between both

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is due to his wonderful series closer to

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truth

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it's likely that you've seen his show

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many times and even if you can't place

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his name

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robert lawrence kuhn you'll likely be

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able to place his face this episode is a

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dive into the nature of truth

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so for example how do you know if you're

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getting closer to it if you can't define

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it as well as faith

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as well as logic as well as god if

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you're new to this channel my name is

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kirch i mungle

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i'm interested in what are called

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theories of everything which is a

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physics terminology

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it means the unification of gravity with

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quantum field theory but it also has

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other philosophical meanings

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and so i'm trying to explore the

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variegated theories of everything

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because there are about 200 or so

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if you enjoy seeing conversations like

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this and you would like to hear

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see more then please do consider

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supporting at patreon.com next

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30 days will be quite the unconscionable

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slog

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for me because i'm interviewing chris

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langan that comes

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toward the end of june chris langan is

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the person who's been characterized as

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having the highest iq in america

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and he has a theory of everything called

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the cognitive theoretic model of the

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universe

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that's for later in june later in june

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as well as rupert spira

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daniel schmattenberger if i'm

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pronouncing his name right

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in this month may i have chomsky coming

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up bernardo castro and john verveiki

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are coming on again for round two of a

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theo locution

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at the end of may i'm also speaking to

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stephen wolfram on his theory of

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everything

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as well as luis elizondo on ufos there's

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also a secret project being planned with

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yoshibak which

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i think you may be extremely excited for

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all of this takes a tremendous

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tremendous amount of work

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because what i'd like to do in these

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podcasts is not give an overview but

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instead

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to go deep into certain subjects and

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that

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requires me to read their papers and

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sometimes

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chris langens for example is extremely

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oblique and

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opaque at least to me which means that

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studying for it is

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well it's difficult as well as rupert's

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spirit is going to be quite

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a challenge i try to over prepare for

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virtually each topic except

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ufos because ufos is one that i'm wholly

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unacquainted in so most of the time when

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i'm speaking to someone on the topic of

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aliens or ufos

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i'm speaking as a beginner for example

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to kevin knuth or

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to jeremy corbell and to a lesser extent

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avi lope because

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that was more physics based we also have

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a paypal if you're more interested in

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that and in fact more of the money the

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percentage-wise goes to

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the creator that is me if you donate or

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support using the paypal link

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that's in the description thank you so

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much thank you regardless of your

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decision

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i hope you enjoy this episode you don't

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generally say yes to interviews

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i was wondering why you said yes to this

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at least interviews not about china i

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think we've we've had a

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a change with the internet uh closer to

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truth has had a

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a spectacular year uh some of it

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energized by of course the lockdown but

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it's been continuing

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at uh on our youtube channel a five-fold

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increase

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um over the last year and we've

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appreciated and i've appreciated the

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thousands of comments that we've had uh

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foreclosure to truth

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and a lot of them have asked you know

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they like my questions but they'd like

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to see some of my answers i do some

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um commentary on our shows

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um with interstitial commentary

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and an open and a close particularly a

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close but on

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the vast majority of our interviews i'm

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just literally asking questions so

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a number of an increasing number of uh

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of uh viewers uh for the closer-to-truth

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uh youtube channel have been asking for

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my opinion and things and

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and a number of people have asked for

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interviews so i've sort of changed our

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policy uh

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we've had a uh kind of a laser focus

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on producing closer to truth uh i've

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been doing this for 20 years

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but uh really non-stop since 2006 when

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uh peter getzells

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uh joined forces with me as an

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award-winning

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director producer very knowledgeable

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about science

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um and since that time it's been it's

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been a just a tremendous

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exciting um productions and then doing

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shows and so that

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all of my energies was devoted to that

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um

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and when we produce a show

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in previously interviews they're pretty

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much raw interviews

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much like this they're shorter focused

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on an individual question will last

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will last for seven to ten

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eleven minutes uh and then it's on to

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the next when we work with an individual

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uh such as you've had donald hoffman or

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robbie loeb uh

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we might have a session of 10 or 12 or

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15

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of those eight to ten minute segments

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and that's what we do and we post those

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uh but then when we do our actual show

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we don't spend an enormous amount of

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time

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uh worrying about every frame and every

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word and to get it get it right

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um and so that's been totally

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consumptive um

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and so i i i i wanted to devote

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all of my energies to producing the best

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thought and the best uh

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presentation for uh for

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the topics that we deal with which i'm

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sure we'll discuss in great detail

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but as i said in the last year because

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closer to truth has now

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been using the youtube channel

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and has broadened itself internationally

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because we're on pbs television for 20

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years

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obviously our focus was in the u.s so

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while when our youtube channel started

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was like 95

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u.s audiences and we've been happy to

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see that percentage drop and drop and

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drop

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and so now we're about forty percent u.s

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so sixty percent plus

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outside the us um with um some

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very significant um demographics uh

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in in just very broadly in the world and

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so all of that

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has contributed to kind of a rethinking

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and so

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i rather than

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um just focus entirely on producing our

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shows

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uh wanted to respond to the uh

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to the times and to our audience uh to

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really get behind this scenes and and

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just uh you know see me as a kind of a

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normal person who has the same

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kinds of questions and interests that

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many of our audience does and so that's

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why i'm

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i'm pleased to do it obviously we screen

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and and i think the professionalism by

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which you and some others

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uh have uh have brought to uh questions

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involving science um each with its own

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particular orientation which is fine um

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i i would look and peter and i would

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would uh

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analyze the um the

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compatibility with what we want to do

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for closer to truth so

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there is a level of sophistication

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and seriousness uh not that we should

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take ourselves seriously

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but that we should take our topic

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seriously and

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um and do it without you know in a very

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open manner

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and so you know we've appreciated what

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what you've done what you've created and

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uh

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happy to share our experiences

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well firstly i thank you for the

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compliment suggesting that i'm even

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somewhat professional and sophisticated

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i wouldn't categorize myself as that

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i just for the people watching

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robert's show closer to truth is the

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highly professional version of this show

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the highly

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high production value in fact it's

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better to say that

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my show was the low budget version of

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yours because yours was out 15 years

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prior

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so if you like theories of everything

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this podcast you're going to love

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closer to truth i recommend searching

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closer to truth

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i'm sure it's it will come up and robert

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kuhn

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if you search his name interviews with

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him

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as well closer to truth.com

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closer to truth.com is our website and

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our youtube channel you can search for

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the youtube channel closer to truth

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youtube channel those are our two main

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uh vehicles other than of course the pbs

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television show which is

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broadcast on over 200 stations in the

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u.s

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are you still producing closer to truth

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do you have ideas for future episodes

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yes definitely uh definitely in fact

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that's uh we're very excited about

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uh um this year of course we we've not

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uh we we've done post-production for

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previous productions we've had we have a

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new series coming out

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in in a couple of months it's it's

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almost entirely produced

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uh 13 episodes we have 13 episodes in a

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season

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that doesn't mean one a year they'll be

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buried there might be one a year might

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be three a year normally is about one

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and a half or two

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uh 13 episodes um and we've done

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20 13 um

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episode season so far since our first

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since the new version of closer to truth

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began broadcasting in 2008 we've had 20

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seasons of 13 episodes each actually the

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last one was 10 episodes

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and the new one coming out which is

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season 21 will

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focus on scientific breakthroughs and

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we've um we've shot extensively

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at the institute of advanced study in

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princeton

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and the santa fe institute in santa fe

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new mexico

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on complexity theory and have some just

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wonderful interviews

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for example uh um edward whitten

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00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:41,920
uh who we hadn't had before the leading

286
00:09:46,310 --> 00:09:43,360
string theorist

287
00:09:48,470 --> 00:09:46,320
uh very extensive interviews with him uh

288
00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:48,480
and just a whole number of

289
00:09:55,509 --> 00:09:52,240
terrific people uh at the institute

290
00:09:58,710 --> 00:09:55,519
karen olenbach robert dygraf our

291
00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:58,720
old friend paul davies is with us the s

292
00:10:03,030 --> 00:09:59,760
ramachandran

293
00:10:04,949 --> 00:10:03,040
uh antonio dimazio in areas of

294
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scientific glenn milad now

295
00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:07,200
we really have a terrific season and we

296
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focus on scientific breakthroughs in

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physics

298
00:10:14,949 --> 00:10:12,560
and scientific breakthroughs in biology

299
00:10:17,829 --> 00:10:14,959
and we break it into two parts one is

300
00:10:19,269 --> 00:10:17,839
the concept what is a scientific

301
00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:19,279
breakthrough in physics what

302
00:10:23,030 --> 00:10:21,040
what is how can you account for it what

303
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:23,040
does it mean what kind of step function

304
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:23,760
is there

305
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:26,320
in understanding the concept of

306
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:27,200
breakthrough

307
00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:30,240
um and secondly what is the process of

308
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,000
breakthrough so we have one whole show

309
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,800
on what is a breakthrough in physics

310
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,720
then another one

311
00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:38,399
what is the process by which a

312
00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:40,079
breakthrough in physics occurs

313
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:42,560
then we do the same thing in biology

314
00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:44,399
those are two

315
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:47,120
so a number about six of the shows in

316
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:48,880
the new season will be on scientific

317
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:50,399
breakthroughs then we have some really

318
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:51,040
diverse

319
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:52,880
and interesting subjects so one is on

320
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,440
deception so we have some of the leading

321
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:57,440
theorists on the concept of descent

322
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:00,640
deception both in the animal kingdom

323
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:03,040
and in uh and in human beings in fact

324
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:04,880
one show was on deception and animals

325
00:11:08,069 --> 00:11:06,000
one show was

326
00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:08,079
on deception and human beings and then

327
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:10,160
two on uh music in the brain

328
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:13,760
and one on uh transhumanism and

329
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:15,920
what does it mean in in in brain science

330
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:17,600
so that's our new season coming up

331
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:20,959
um it'll be broadcast on pbs i said

332
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:24,240
within a few months uh starting um i

333
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:25,440
should mention though

334
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:27,920
that the first two episodes in the new

335
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:28,959
season

336
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:32,000
are a tribute to freeman dyson uh

337
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:32,720
freeman

338
00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:36,560
was one of our early contributors

339
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:39,519
and enriched our show enormously and we

340
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:40,079
very much

341
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:43,519
appreciate it and so peter getzelz and i

342
00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:44,560
put together a

343
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:47,839
a two-part tribute uh working with his

344
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:48,560
family

345
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:50,639
and so we have a lot of inside photos

346
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:52,399
and and ideas and then

347
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:54,399
most of the show of course is freeman's

348
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:56,320
own ideas um

349
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:59,839
and one of them will deal with his views

350
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:02,160
on on physics which is natural

351
00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:04,320
and the other is sort of a broad his

352
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:05,680
broad approach to

353
00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:08,320
to a lot of other things so it's a very

354
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,040
exciting

355
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,360
opening to the new season uh on on

356
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,600
freeman dyson

357
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:15,839
then going on from here we've used the

358
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:18,079
last year to look to the future

359
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:21,600
and we have a a pretty exciting backlog

360
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:24,959
of production uh which are fully funded

361
00:12:25,810 --> 00:12:25,440
by

362
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:25,820
um

363
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:28,880
[Music]

364
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,190
excellent foundations with whom we work

365
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:33,279
the john templeton foundation the arthur

366
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:34,320
binding davis

367
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:37,120
foundation um the templeton religion

368
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:38,959
trust uh templeton world charity

369
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:39,920
foundation

370
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,440
um and so these series coming up um

371
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:45,600
and in no order of importance because

372
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:47,279
they're all important like which of your

373
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:49,440
children are the most exciting so don't

374
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,800
don't take it like the first one i

375
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:52,480
mentioned is most important but i just

376
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,040
want to

377
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:54,880
mention the ones that we'll be doing uh

378
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:56,800
productions in the future

379
00:13:01,110 --> 00:13:00,000
the first is the global philosophy of

380
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:01,120
religion

381
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:05,120
uh and this is a very

382
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,720
not just exciting but we believe an

383
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:08,160
important uh

384
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,440
um project that is run

385
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,600
at the university of birmingham in the

386
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:15,519
uk

387
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,560
run by a closer to truth contributor and

388
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:20,880
one of our closest uh

389
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,680
allies and colleagues eugene nagazawa

390
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:25,440
who's

391
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:28,240
originally a philosopher of mind and has

392
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,040
become a leading philosopher of religion

393
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:34,000
and really a a wonderful philosopher and

394
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:35,279
thinker

395
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:38,320
we worked with eugene actually almost 10

396
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,040
years ago

397
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:41,600
in producing a series of programs on

398
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:43,920
alternative concepts of god

399
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:46,160
which are which were different ideas

400
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:47,680
than the traditional

401
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:51,360
judeo-christian islam monotheism

402
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,320
and those are very successful programs

403
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:56,639
and eugene has put together

404
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,000
a vision for engaging

405
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:02,480
the world because philosophy of religion

406
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:04,560
really has been

407
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:07,120
pretty much focused uh on the

408
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:08,800
judeo-christian religion particularly

409
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,399
christian philosophers

410
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:13,040
um and the work that has been done since

411
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:15,279
the middle ages in christian philosophy

412
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:15,600
is

413
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,399
really wonderful stuff some people and

414
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:20,079
scientists make fun of these kinds of

415
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:21,279
philosophies

416
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:25,120
and we can get into that um but uh

417
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:28,480
the contribution that the christian

418
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:30,399
philosophy has done over the years to

419
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,519
thinking about

420
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:32,959
about now they do it from their

421
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:34,959
perspective of course but

422
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:37,519
the ways of thinking are are really

423
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:38,800
wonderful and

424
00:14:42,069 --> 00:14:41,760
expansionary for human human development

425
00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:42,079
but

426
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:45,560
it is still christo-centric or

427
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,680
judeo-christo-centric which is what we

428
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:49,760
closer to truth has done just out of

429
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:50,720
expediency

430
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,320
right um we did reach out to try to get

431
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,560
um non-christian thinkers and we have in

432
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:58,320
the beginning we have

433
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,440
uh hussein nasser who's arguably one of

434
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:03,360
the leading islamic philosophers in the

435
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:04,399
world from

436
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:07,680
from iran persia uh tradition uh

437
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,920
and a wonderful philosopher and we have

438
00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:11,199
some buddhists and hindus

439
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:14,320
but the skew was very much uh toward

440
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,120
a judeo-christian and so when eugene had

441
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:19,360
this project to really engage the whole

442
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:20,160
world

443
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:23,760
in um in in this endeavor in in terms of

444
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:26,240
expanding the thinking in philosophy of

445
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:27,360
religion

446
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,480
we jumped on and uh we said and worked

447
00:15:33,749 --> 00:15:32,000
together with eugene and the john

448
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:33,759
templeton foundation we have it fully

449
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:34,959
funded so our

450
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:37,519
first program in this regard is actually

451
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,320
going to be an online conference which

452
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,880
will occur in june as a conference and

453
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,160
then thereafter

454
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:47,120
we will have about 20 interviews maybe

455
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,519
more

456
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:50,000
panel discussions keynotes that will

457
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:51,519
deal with the global philosophy of

458
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:53,440
religion and we will deal with

459
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:57,040
obviously um uh islam and hinduism

460
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:58,560
but we're going to go broader than that

461
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:00,399
we wanted to do uh

462
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,000
a sikh is we are doing sikhism and uh

463
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,560
african religions so we have a very

464
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:09,040
broad diversity of ideas so

465
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,440
global philosophy and religion is one

466
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:13,360
project for the future next year will be

467
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:14,399
in birmingham

468
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:17,839
live for our typical closer to truth um

469
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,959
productions very very high quality

470
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:22,880
shows will take a year or so to get out

471
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,399
on pbs and then youtube

472
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,320
uh it's a long process that we have but

473
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:28,320
but we love it and we're dedicated to it

474
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:28,880
other

475
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:32,720
of biology

476
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:35,680
which is will be our first foray into

477
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:38,000
biology in a very serious way

478
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:40,560
and it will become a a new category for

479
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:42,000
close to the truth right now

480
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,600
quotes of truth classically has three

481
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,519
big categories cosmos

482
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:47,920
which deals with cosmology astronomy

483
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,720
physics mathematics um

484
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,199
consciousness which deals with brain

485
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,279
mind diverse intelligences

486
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:58,320
a little bit esp once in a while uh

487
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:01,759
um alien intelligences uh uh

488
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:05,120
personal alien intelligences as in ufo

489
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,919
aliens or just

490
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:07,600
extraterrestrial life what would they be

491
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:09,120
like no but

492
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:11,199
astrobiology basically and thinking

493
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:12,559
about what the nature of alien

494
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:13,760
intelligence is

495
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:16,799
um we deal with pers

496
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:18,799
how does personal identity uh be

497
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,799
maintained free will it's been a major

498
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:22,079
topic

499
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:24,000
that's our consciousness and then our

500
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:26,079
meaning category really is philosophy of

501
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,039
religion

502
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:30,000
um and it it heretofore has been

503
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,200
somewhat as i said

504
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,200
uh judeo-christian-centric and so what

505
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:34,880
we're looking to do is expand that

506
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:35,760
category

507
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:38,320
meaning uh and now with philosophy of

508
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,520
biology which is

509
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:41,280
one of our biggest grants and one of our

510
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,559
biggest productions

511
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,480
uh contemplated that will become a new

512
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:46,240
category of closer to truth called

513
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:49,840
life which we will develop in the future

514
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:53,039
other series coming up are a continuing

515
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:56,320
work on art seeking understanding and we

516
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,960
will

517
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:59,039
we have a wonderful opportunity with the

518
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:01,039
arthur binding davis foundation

519
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,880
in terms of eastern traditions which

520
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:04,480
will focus on buddhism

521
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:07,039
and chinese philosophy confucianism and

522
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,160
taoism

523
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:11,280
with big focus on buddhism and how those

524
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:14,720
those religions or traditions

525
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:17,760
deal with the big questions this is not

526
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,240
one-on-one religion about telling about

527
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:22,160
these religions that's not our job

528
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:24,720
we're going to focus on what are the big

529
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:27,200
questions that closer to truth asks

530
00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:29,039
that we have traditionally approached

531
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:30,960
from a judeo-christian point of view

532
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,440
yeah and how do these other traditions

533
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,440
deal with those same questions so

534
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:37,120
we got we got a long future ahead of us

535
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,640
we just got to keep healthy robert just

536
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:40,080
so you know if i ever look angry

537
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:41,520
i'm just thinking that's my thinking

538
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,480
face i'm sure you're familiar with it

539
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:46,880
i don't mind i don't mind anger what i

540
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,200
what i mind is passivity

541
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,600
well you know whatever i do is fine but

542
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:53,039
no i i like anger

543
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:56,640
you know get angry at me you know okay

544
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:58,559
all right you mentioned that one of the

545
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:59,760
reasons you

546
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,080
stayed or steered clear from eastern

547
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:04,080
traditions before was expediency

548
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:06,960
and i'm also wondering if it's also due

549
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:07,600
to the

550
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:09,600
level of unfamiliarity that we in the

551
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:11,840
west we grow up with so for example

552
00:19:15,669 --> 00:19:13,919
if a western philosopher thinks that the

553
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:15,679
jump from analytic philosophy to

554
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:16,880
continental is huge

555
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:19,200
try continental slash analytic to

556
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,320
eastern philosophy

557
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:22,400
it's a completely different base it's

558
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,960
almost meditative and experiential and

559
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:26,960
requires special knowledge insights that

560
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:28,559
you glean that you can't necessarily

561
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,200
share

562
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,120
so is that another reason why or is it

563
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,440
purely expediency

564
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:36,720
i i think well i i i expediency is not a

565
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,160
term i would use uh

566
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:41,039
because going in we wanted to do it we

567
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:42,000
wanted to get

568
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:45,200
first class philosophers but in our in

569
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:46,400
our

570
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,919
limited production because we weren't

571
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,760
using internet where we could interview

572
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,520
anybody anytime we were doing

573
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,919
and we do it close to very high

574
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:55,440
production value

575
00:20:03,190 --> 00:19:59,679
um um videos and television

576
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,200
that are the the equivalent as we say of

577
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:05,520
toyota commercials and so we like to get

578
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:06,240
crews

579
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:08,880
peter gets directors of photography and

580
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:10,240
cameramen

581
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:13,120
between their toyota commute commercials

582
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,159
where they're paid

583
00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:16,480
at rates where they're off time they'd

584
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:18,159
love closer to truth so they do it at

585
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,880
scale

586
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:20,799
and so we can afford it but still very

587
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,720
expensive and we have crews of you know

588
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,400
13 15 people

589
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:27,120
three cameras dollies jebs i mean it's a

590
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,520
big

591
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:29,679
effort and so the only way we can do

592
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:31,200
that efficiently

593
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,640
is to uh uh is to sort of uh a gang

594
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:37,120
tape within a week we do 15 because

595
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,640
people are gathered at a conference and

596
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,039
the kinds of conferences that we've had

597
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,360
because they've been limited have been

598
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:45,440
western oriented now a lot have been

599
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:46,080
physics we

600
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,679
work very closely with an organization

601
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:49,280
called fqxi

602
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,320
foundation questions institute uh

603
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:53,919
which deals with sort of over the

604
00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:56,480
horizon physics and cosmology with

605
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:59,120
some of the leading uh cosmologists and

606
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:00,400
quantum physics

607
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:04,000
physics looking at um

608
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:06,000
the foundations of quantum mechanics

609
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:07,200
looking at uh

610
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:10,480
new ideas in cosmology um and so that's

611
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:11,360
what we have done

612
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:13,840
and it's just that in none of those

613
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:15,679
venues that we've had

614
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,960
would eastern philosophers at a first

615
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,480
grade level come up

616
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,960
now you bring up a very important point

617
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,440
in terms of the experiential aspect of

618
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:26,960
eastern philosophy

619
00:21:33,470 --> 00:21:30,880
because we have a kind of an operating

620
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,480
framework on closer to truth that

621
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:35,840
experiential

622
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:38,559
work is something that we can refer to

623
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:39,440
but it's not

624
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:44,159
our core because you can't share it uh

625
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:47,840
because it is it is difficult

626
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:50,480
for third-party verification you know it

627
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:51,440
internally

628
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:54,320
so we we have had shows and efforts

629
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:54,880
saying

630
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:58,559
why an analytic philosophical approach

631
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:00,880
is not sufficient that's a fair

632
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:04,080
comment within everything but to then

633
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:07,600
adjudicate between uh

634
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:11,200
large numbers of uh of of of people

635
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,520
in in particular eastern traditions but

636
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:16,320
also in western traditions who have

637
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:19,120
experiential understanding and that's

638
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:20,159
part of their

639
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,120
their core we have determined that's not

640
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:25,679
within closer to truth's orbit

641
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:29,039
to deal with in detail and so that's

642
00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:30,000
probably

643
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:33,039
a um an unintended

644
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:36,159
skew why we have not pursued eastern

645
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,280
religions

646
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:39,919
as much as we should because in eastern

647
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,120
religions there is

648
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:43,360
more of that experiential internal

649
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:44,320
dimension

650
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:48,000
uh but that excuse is uh is no longer

651
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,760
acceptable to us

652
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:51,200
yeah i was also thinking if you're

653
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,720
mentioning that there's a lack of third

654
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,640
party verification the same could be

655
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:56,080
said about consciousness but you have a

656
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:57,120
whole series on that

657
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:58,640
for example you can't tell if i'm

658
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:59,840
conscious i can't tell if you're

659
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:00,559
conscious

660
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:03,039
sure sure and and we deal with that very

661
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:05,039
very extensively as a very important

662
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:07,679
part of the consciousness uh approach

663
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:08,720
look

664
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,760
everybody has a bias my phd

665
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:13,919
is in neuroscience you can see some

666
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:16,000
stuff on the background remind myself

667
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:19,600
of my early days in neuroscience

668
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:22,240
so that that's a particular skew that

669
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:23,200
i've had

670
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,880
um in terms of a world view from

671
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:28,480
it's a scientific worldview it's a

672
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:30,400
neuroscience worldview at least that was

673
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:30,799
the

674
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:34,000
germinating aspect of my of my kind of

675
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:34,960
thinking

676
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:38,960
um so we have as i said recognize from

677
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,679
the beginning

678
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:41,440
the importance of eastern thinking and

679
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:42,880
we have that right from the beginning

680
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:43,600
like hosting

681
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,720
uh uh uh jose nasser

682
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:48,960
who was one of our first interviewees in

683
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:50,000
2007

684
00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:53,440
i think um but we've not

685
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,240
we've not taken it further this year

686
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:58,080
with the expansion of closer to truth

687
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,039
globally

688
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:01,120
uh we've recognized that this is this is

689
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:02,960
an issue so we have made peter not made

690
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:03,360
a

691
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:06,480
focus uh to to uh

692
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,080
put our um our future approach in

693
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:12,240
um in to reach out and again our

694
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:13,919
audiences are now broader so that

695
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,200
they're pushing us as well

696
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:17,679
as rightly they should when we get

697
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:18,960
criticized um

698
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:22,320
in in uh feedback or youtube comments uh

699
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,360
that you should deal with eastern

700
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,200
religion what we now say is you know

701
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,440
we've done a little bit but you're right

702
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:29,600
you know that that's a missing dimension

703
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,200
that we have and we're gonna

704
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:33,279
we're going to fill it and we're you

705
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:35,840
know very pleased coincidentally um

706
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,240
that uh that yucha nagasawa has put

707
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:40,000
together this remarkable

708
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:41,919
global philosophy of religion project

709
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,400
which is you know very broad

710
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,640
sending a three-year project it has

711
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,080
three specific

712
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:50,640
content areas the first is on the

713
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:51,440
existence

714
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:54,400
and nature of deities and that was the

715
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,200
first

716
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:57,840
of the three big areas and that's what

717
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,400
our

718
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,559
first conference online conference will

719
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,799
be it was supposed to be in person

720
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:04,640
but we've now transferred it online the

721
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:06,000
second conference

722
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:09,440
will be on um death and immortality

723
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:11,200
so that will deal with consciousness

724
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:12,480
kinds of issues

725
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,960
and the third will be on problem of evil

726
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:16,480
suffering in the world those kinds of

727
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,039
things

728
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,440
so those are the three categories of to

729
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,840
to take a global philosophy of religion

730
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:23,679
and we're doing the first online the

731
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:25,840
second we'll do in person

732
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:27,360
and hopefully we can do something with

733
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:29,360
the third as well and that that will

734
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:30,240
really

735
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:32,240
uh broaden closer to truth where it

736
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,159
should go so

737
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:36,559
thanks to eugene and uh john templeton

738
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,840
foundation for their

739
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:39,679
their project and and eugene's project

740
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:41,600
has is much broader than these just

741
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:43,039
these conferences they have

742
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:44,480
research projects they're going to do

743
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:46,480
books it's it's a big effort

744
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:49,120
uh to create really a new field of

745
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,640
global philosophy of religion and

746
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:51,840
reaching out to

747
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:55,039
this as i've said african philosophy uh

748
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:58,159
sikhism shintoism we have a the leading

749
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,919
shinto philosopher eugene's gonna have

750
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:01,120
to translate

751
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:03,440
on the phone uh but we did we didn't

752
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:04,320
want to

753
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:08,080
sub optimize by getting a a philosopher

754
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:09,600
who speaks fluent english

755
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:12,320
we wanted to get the best philosopher

756
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:12,799
right

757
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:18,559
uh the individual doesn't speak english

758
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:20,320
uh and so usually we'll

759
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:22,240
will translate he promises me not to put

760
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:24,640
any of his own ideas in but to translate

761
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,440
honestly robert how do you and peter

762
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:29,200
besides let's say technical logistics

763
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:32,559
how do you prepare for each interview

764
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:35,919
um the way we do closer to truth

765
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,600
normally and then i'll describe the last

766
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:41,600
year where we're doing it online

767
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,799
is that we have to have generally

768
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:46,320
minimum of five days

769
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:48,960
and maximum probably of seven in which

770
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:50,960
we will go to a location

771
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:53,279
uh for example we've we've done with

772
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:54,320
fqxi

773
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:57,279
we did it in vieques in puerto rico we

774
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:00,080
did it in iceland we did it in uh

775
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:03,200
um iceland was on cosmology vieques when

776
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:06,240
we did fqxi was in information theory

777
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,480
uh and in banff canada which was the

778
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:10,080
last one we did was on

779
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,919
physics of the observer and the physics

780
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:14,080
of what happens basically it's the

781
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,200
foundations of quantum mechanics so

782
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,520
let me just describe that in banff in

783
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:21,120
banff they had uh

784
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:24,399
i don't know 80 or so physicists who

785
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:27,760
came to this event um and we

786
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:31,840
we picked about 15 uh 17 15

787
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:34,399
who we shot within this six five six day

788
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:35,200
period

789
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:38,240
uh we did some on locations it's quite a

790
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:39,120
hectic schedule

791
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,559
man congrats it's it's very hard and it

792
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:44,159
doesn't happen easily

793
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:48,480
boot camp it's it's a very intense uh

794
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:50,080
uh seven eight days the navy has

795
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:51,679
something called hell week that sounds

796
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,159
like hell

797
00:27:55,669 --> 00:27:54,640
seven no it's it's it's really i mean it

798
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:55,679
sounds like hell and

799
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:57,520
look and if you looked at our faces and

800
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,720
our attention

801
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,559
you'd think we were we were miserable

802
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,240
but this is this is what we love

803
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:05,600
this is our i understand it is uh it is

804
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:06,880
terrific and so

805
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:09,039
we'll know in advance uh six months that

806
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:10,240
there's that plan

807
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,919
and then peter and his team will start

808
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:14,240
working with individuals

809
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:17,520
who we've targeted and make a schedule

810
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:19,840
uh in general we'll do three people a

811
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:21,760
day sometimes if they're very long we'll

812
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:22,880
do two

813
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:24,559
occasionally if they're shorter we might

814
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:27,600
do four a day and these days are

815
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:30,480
14 16 hour days especially for the crews

816
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,279
it takes them

817
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:33,600
an hour and a half to to set up it takes

818
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:34,880
at least an hour to

819
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:39,039
to uh to break down the set

820
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:42,480
um and in between we probably have 10

821
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:44,880
12 10 hours of shoot of actual shooting

822
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:45,600
time

823
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,840
now what i do when i know those 15

824
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:49,520
individuals i'm going to have i will

825
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,320
have

826
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:52,559
you know at least a good solid two

827
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,360
months

828
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:56,640
of prior preparation where i will ask

829
00:29:01,269 --> 00:28:58,480
each of the individuals with whom we're

830
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,279
interviewing to send me their papers

831
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:04,320
and i will go through those papers and

832
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,880
kind of structure it in my own mind how

833
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,640
we see the shows approximately because

834
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:09,840
everything

835
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:11,679
we want to get as much material in the

836
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,360
production as possible

837
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,600
and then later in the post-production we

838
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,679
decide what makes the best shows

839
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:19,840
uh but we have the raw material for our

840
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,520
actual interviews

841
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:23,520
and then prior to each interview i'll

842
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:26,080
send an outline of topics to the

843
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:27,039
individual

844
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:28,320
and say this is what we're talking not

845
00:29:32,470 --> 00:29:30,480
specific questions but but rather here

846
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,480
are the topics we'll be dealing with

847
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:34,159
did i leave out anything something you

848
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:35,760
want to discuss that i haven't

849
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:38,720
mentioned um and we get that and then i

850
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:39,360
have that

851
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:43,039
that outline um and so i i have to go

852
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:43,440
into

853
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:47,039
each interview feeling uh

854
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:48,880
i i should put it this way fooling

855
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:51,200
myself to think i know

856
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:53,600
almost as much as that person does about

857
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:54,559
his

858
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:57,919
or her topic um and and if i have that

859
00:30:05,510 --> 00:29:58,240
then

860
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,520
and and that i i so i i prepare very

861
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:06,960
much for each of these interviews and

862
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:09,120
that's again a part of the fun for me is

863
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:09,919
really

864
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,320
learning and understanding and then

865
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:14,240
trying to relate

866
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:16,080
what how that person thinks and the

867
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:18,880
ideas to the big questions of closer to

868
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:19,679
truth

869
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:22,799
um because that's our core we have this

870
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:25,919
these big sets of uh big questions and

871
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:26,320
we

872
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:28,640
want to understand those questions which

873
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:29,360
a question

874
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:32,320
you know all humanity has um and we want

875
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,520
to understand that from diverse

876
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:35,200
perspectives

877
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:37,279
do you get people emailing you their

878
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:39,039
variegated theories of everything on

879
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,640
consciousness or physics

880
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:42,240
and how do you deal with that do you

881
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:44,159
welcome it for example

882
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:47,520
that's a very good question and uh

883
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,120
uh i i

884
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:53,360
really appreciate when uh people write

885
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,480
to us

886
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:56,640
in general i mean it's it's uh it's much

887
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,000
appreciated

888
00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:00,960
i i read everything that comes in

889
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:01,760
directly

890
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:04,880
into phototruth.com and i

891
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:08,080
certainly skimmed through the large

892
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,039
majority of the comments on youtube

893
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,919
there are obviously so many now and and

894
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:16,000
i've tried to respond to

895
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:19,039
many of the ones that come in directly

896
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:22,720
and over time there have been

897
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:24,640
an increasing number of people who have

898
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:26,000
their own theories

899
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:29,440
um and i'm

900
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:32,799
you know polite uh in many

901
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:36,159
many times i you know i can't uh

902
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:37,919
accurately adjudicate some very

903
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:40,880
sophisticated aspect of uh of quantum

904
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:42,159
physics but

905
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:46,720
um you know the um

906
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:50,159
the the fact is is that if

907
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,159
if um there are examples in history

908
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:56,320
where people have made radical

909
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,200
breakthroughs

910
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,200
as we all know and the general

911
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:01,360
relativity and quantum theory but you

912
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:02,640
know it's not

913
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:05,919
it's not that uh frequent so many of the

914
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:09,279
ideas we get in uh in the physics area

915
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:10,399
and the consciousness

916
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:15,039
area are on the extreme

917
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:18,480
i i just i try to skim all of them

918
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:21,360
uh you know never knowing when something

919
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:22,880
and and even when

920
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:26,240
ideas are i wouldn't say crackpot i'd

921
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:29,519
say fringe or radical

922
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,519
it sometimes shows you a different kind

923
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:33,120
of way of thinking

924
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:37,039
um and and that to me is very helpful to

925
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:37,919
to understand

926
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,519
different ways of thinking sometimes

927
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,159
there are interesting insights that uh

928
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:45,360
that that people have uh but i can't

929
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:46,960
do you have an example of an interesting

930
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:49,360
insight off the top of your head

931
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,760
um yeah i i would say there's

932
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:55,039
one individual i don't want to mention

933
00:33:03,190 --> 00:32:58,880
too many names who who has shown

934
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,200
with some rather bizarre

935
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:06,480
um comparisons between number theory and

936
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:07,760
quantum physics

937
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:11,200
but in his work showed the uh

938
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:14,000
high level of importance of chaos theory

939
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:14,480
in

940
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:21,360
for that chaos theory is more

941
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:23,760
fundamental than than it may seem on the

942
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:25,919
surface although it is

943
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,080
um and so that's an example the

944
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:32,960
mechanism by with which this individual

945
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:34,640
describes the

946
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:38,480
um some relations with number theory and

947
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:42,159
and quantum physics you know i i i don't

948
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:42,720
buy

949
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,559
and you know maybe i'm not qualified to

950
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:46,799
analyze but but as a result of

951
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,480
of going through it and seeing the

952
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:50,240
sophistication of thinking

953
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:53,919
uh it it it allows you to see

954
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:56,720
um uh perhaps see things that you

955
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,279
haven't

956
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:59,120
seen before so when anybody sends

957
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,320
something in i

958
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,880
i look at i look at everyone um i mean i

959
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,559
look at it for long

960
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:06,480
but i do look at everyone and and on

961
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:09,599
occasion i will uh comment um

962
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:11,839
there is a danger in commenting because

963
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:14,079
if you comment then you're gonna get

964
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:17,440
you know ten times as much back and then

965
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:20,240
now what do you do uh so right you know

966
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:20,800
the

967
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:24,399
can't

968
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,440
be in detailed communication with

969
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:29,760
dozens of people on sophisticated topics

970
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:30,800
i i just

971
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:33,599
can't you know i have to do some family

972
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,079
stuff

973
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:37,200
too for grandkids and whatever

974
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:40,399
so um it takes quite a bit of time to go

975
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:40,720
through

976
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:42,639
almost anyone's work in detail even if

977
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:44,720
it's non-academic and fluffy

978
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:48,159
it it may take an entire day yeah and

979
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,480
and

980
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:50,639
i i can't do that i think i've i've

981
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:51,520
gotten

982
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:54,240
uh over the years having done i don't

983
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:54,639
know

984
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,359
400 interviews and have read papers by

985
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,599
so many people in so many ways

986
00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:01,200
at least in the areas that i'm familiar

987
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:03,700
with you know i'm not putting

988
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:04,880
[Music]

989
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:07,040
public policy health care in my list of

990
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,160
expertise

991
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,240
but in the areas that i have focused on

992
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,560
uh on closer to truth i am very very

993
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:13,599
familiar

994
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:16,480
with the scope of the field and in some

995
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:17,119
depth

996
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:21,040
and so i can pretty quickly scan a paper

997
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:24,160
in in our categories very quickly and

998
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,040
get a sense of

999
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:28,160
what what the the point is um and then

1000
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:28,640
go

1001
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:33,119
further uh as as it may be i've had two

1002
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:37,200
um three experiences in the last year

1003
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:38,640
where individuals

1004
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,160
were presenting ideas that were um

1005
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:44,880
that were not my traditional way of

1006
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:45,839
thinking

1007
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:49,200
uh and very sophisticated and i engage

1008
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:50,160
with these people

1009
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:53,440
and and consider them now colleagues so

1010
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:55,599
out of the hundreds and hundreds uh

1011
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,880
there are three and

1012
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:58,800
maybe there'd be another one if i think

1013
00:36:02,710 --> 00:35:59,920
hard but

1014
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,720
there are three and curiously uh maybe

1015
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:03,920
not curiously all

1016
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:06,960
three come present

1017
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:09,839
from an eastern point of view uh two are

1018
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,040
from india

1019
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,520
uh and the third is from the netherlands

1020
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:15,440
uh but he's presenting

1021
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:18,240
about the concept of zero from an indian

1022
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,520
point of view he's a

1023
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:21,520
very sophisticated he's not a

1024
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,680
professional philosopher but he's uh

1025
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:25,920
he's as good as one and the two from

1026
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:27,680
india one is a quantum physicist

1027
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:30,880
who has very strong ideas about vedanta

1028
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:34,480
the other is a an artist

1029
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:37,920
uh in the tamil tamil tradition

1030
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:40,800
uh who has written books on art and uh

1031
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,440
um

1032
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,760
and understanding art from a

1033
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:45,359
philosophical point of view he was

1034
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,520
trained as a computer scientist so he's

1035
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:49,440
very knowledgeable about science he's an

1036
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:51,680
artist and he has written these books

1037
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:52,079
into

1038
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,640
meal about art and understanding and

1039
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:56,320
from each of these

1040
00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:59,680
i have uh engaged in serious

1041
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:02,320
communication and have learned a good

1042
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,440
deal

1043
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:05,119
were there any interviews that you felt

1044
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:08,720
particularly underprepared for

1045
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:12,480
um i i would say my early interviews

1046
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:16,800
uh with uh some some superstars i was uh

1047
00:37:20,069 --> 00:37:18,000
i don't know if i would say

1048
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,079
underprepared i would say i

1049
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:23,119
was i was uh nervous

1050
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:26,480
and uh kind of awed uh by the

1051
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,000
potential of of the experience i

1052
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:33,280
can i can drop names but

1053
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:36,480
people on the physics side stephen

1054
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:37,440
weinberg

1055
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:40,560
um frank wilcheck alan guth

1056
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:44,160
uh andre lindy uh these are people who i

1057
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:48,000
greatly respected and uh

1058
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:49,599
many others in that category as well

1059
00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:51,119
just mentioning a few

1060
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:54,079
um and intimidated uh by their work and

1061
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:55,440
going in and wanting to

1062
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:57,680
uh to do a good job on the philosophy

1063
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:58,640
side um

1064
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:01,680
richard swinburne alan alvin planing or

1065
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:02,800
peter van impe

1066
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:06,640
just to name a few very sophisticated

1067
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:07,760
philosophers

1068
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,400
i love philosophy i study philosophy but

1069
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:13,200
i'm not a professional philosopher

1070
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,760
nor my professional physicist obviously

1071
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:18,240
and so these i have felt intimidated

1072
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:21,520
going in but uh but

1073
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:24,800
but in the process um uh

1074
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,680
perhaps over prepared uh but still felt

1075
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:29,680
intimidated and i got the

1076
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:32,320
greatest compliment uh from one i won't

1077
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,839
mention who said it but

1078
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:36,160
one of the names i just mentioned told

1079
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:37,440
me after

1080
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:40,960
after uh uh the interview he said he

1081
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:42,880
felt like he had gone through

1082
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,079
a second set of phd prelims

1083
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:48,240
which are when the professors ask you

1084
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:49,760
these hard questions about all the

1085
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:51,200
things that you do to

1086
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,880
get you to the stage where you then do

1087
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,160
your thesis so you do that you're

1088
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,000
supposed to know the field

1089
00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:58,400
uh at that point so when he said that

1090
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:59,839
that kind of uh that kind of made me

1091
00:39:02,950 --> 00:39:00,640
feel good

1092
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:02,960
um but but but i i should tell you that

1093
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:05,920
there's not a single interview that i do

1094
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:08,160
that i don't feel apprehensive going in

1095
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,160
because you never know enough

1096
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:12,400
and you know i'm thinking with uh you

1097
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:14,000
know several

1098
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:15,920
several levels at the same time i want

1099
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,359
to engage the individual

1100
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,960
i really want to understand it

1101
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,040
personally myself and then i want to

1102
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:23,280
make sure our audience sort of gets it

1103
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:25,040
too and it doesn't go over their head

1104
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:26,480
and i

1105
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:29,200
explain terms that are terms of art if i

1106
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:31,040
if i need to do that in context so i

1107
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:32,400
have to have this

1108
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:35,599
kind of multi-uh level uh thinking

1109
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:38,000
in each interview but it it never

1110
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,760
changes in other words i don't feel so

1111
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:41,760
confident going into an interview

1112
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,599
that um i i i don't feel the

1113
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:48,000
tension and the apprehension uh to

1114
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:48,640
really

1115
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:51,839
uh get it get it right um and and that's

1116
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:52,720
that's a good thing

1117
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:55,599
because uh um you know this is what i

1118
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:57,839
love doing i love learning uh

1119
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:01,440
i i genesis is closer to the truth is

1120
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,440
that i want to learn this is not like i

1121
00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:05,280
know the answer i'm gonna tell people i

1122
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,160
don't know

1123
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:09,359
i wanna i wanna experience this and uh

1124
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,599
and and and show my anxieties and

1125
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:13,680
uncertainties along with everything else

1126
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:14,480
so

1127
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,160
you know one thing i i do want to

1128
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:18,079
emphasize and and maybe now just a good

1129
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,560
point

1130
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:21,119
to describe it when many people write to

1131
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:21,599
us

1132
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,160
they say you know i really enjoy

1133
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,560
watching closer to the truth

1134
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:28,240
and the first thing and then they ask

1135
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:29,440
whatever they want i said the first

1136
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:30,960
thing i have to tell you

1137
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,160
is that it's not closer to the truth

1138
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:36,720
it is closer to truth and this is an

1139
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,000
extremely important

1140
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:40,560
distinction in fact when the show was

1141
00:40:43,829 --> 00:40:42,000
first named

1142
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:43,839
um which i can tell you that story if

1143
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:45,440
you're interested the

1144
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:48,240
suggestion was it was in a um the

1145
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,319
original name of the show

1146
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,720
going back 20 years before 20 years was

1147
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:54,160
called mine quest

1148
00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:56,720
and the subtitle was the closest you'll

1149
00:41:02,069 --> 00:40:58,400
get to truth

1150
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,079
and uh the pbs president

1151
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:04,720
at pbs station in orange county at that

1152
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,680
time koce now pbs socal at that time mel

1153
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,720
rogers

1154
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:12,240
um said he didn't you know he's going to

1155
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,760
give the show a shot

1156
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:16,160
but he hated that title mine quest and

1157
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:17,440
he said what is it about and i said the

1158
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:19,119
subtitle was the closest you'll get to

1159
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:19,599
truth

1160
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,359
and he said that's it the closest you'll

1161
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:23,599
get to the truth i said no no we can't

1162
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:23,920
say

1163
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:26,560
the truth take out the and and that's

1164
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,400
the name close to the truth so

1165
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:31,440
thanks to mel um uh who uh therefore

1166
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:33,520
became the godfather of closer to truth

1167
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:34,079
um

1168
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:36,880
it it it is it is that so closer to

1169
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:38,160
truth it's a

1170
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:40,480
progressive and and when we write it we

1171
00:41:44,790 --> 00:41:42,640
we capitalize the two

1172
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:44,800
to because we want to emphasize that

1173
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:46,079
it's a process

1174
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:49,119
and it's not the truth coming out at the

1175
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:49,680
end

1176
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,920
because we know the answer no it's a

1177
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,839
process we all work through together by

1178
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:55,680
getting some of the best thinking

1179
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,480
um and uh testing one against the other

1180
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:00,720
and and seeking diversity

1181
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,280
we recognize we need diversity and in

1182
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:05,040
today's world that's even more important

1183
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:05,680
than which

1184
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,079
we're striving to do that but in our

1185
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:10,240
view the most important thing

1186
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:13,359
is diversity of ideas and ideas that are

1187
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:14,720
both sophisticated

1188
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,920
and coherent

1189
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:19,920
you can have a lot of diverse ideas that

1190
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:22,640
are incoherent that's easy to do

1191
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:24,640
and you know maybe we have to make that

1192
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:25,839
judgment

1193
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,480
but we love diversity in ideas and

1194
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:30,000
that's what we have always strived to

1195
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:32,000
do and now we're working to have more

1196
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:33,280
diversity in

1197
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,800
uh externalities as well okay

1198
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,800
you use the word coherence now i'm

1199
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:40,480
wondering do you subscribe to a

1200
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,359
coherence

1201
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:43,440
theory of truth or a correspondence or a

1202
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,400
deflationary

1203
00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:46,079
and when you say closer to truth you

1204
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:48,079
have to be

1205
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:50,079
prioritizing one because they conflict

1206
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,440
with one another and if what you're

1207
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:53,119
saying is we put these intellectuals in

1208
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:54,480
the ring and let them hammer it out

1209
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:56,319
well then is it just social convention

1210
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:57,520
which one

1211
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,119
emerges as the consensus how are you

1212
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:05,109
okay so that's a very broad and

1213
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:06,880
important question

1214
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,599
and uh the the first way that i would

1215
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,520
approach it is to divide

1216
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:13,680
the ways of thinking about the word

1217
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:14,960
truth uh

1218
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:17,839
there is the the philosophy uh category

1219
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:20,240
the correspondence theory uh the various

1220
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:21,040
theories of

1221
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:23,359
of truth you need truth makers to make a

1222
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:24,319
truth

1223
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,359
you know that this philosophical

1224
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:30,319
uh approaches to it uh there's ways that

1225
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:30,960
we use

1226
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:33,520
uh truth in common usage and then

1227
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:34,800
there's a way that we use

1228
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,359
truth in in the common media today and

1229
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:39,040
all of those kind of get

1230
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:43,280
um kind of getting mixed up together

1231
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,390
that's one way to look another way to

1232
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:50,160
look at it is you

1233
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:53,280
you can't just define truth

1234
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:56,880
without seeking the context for what

1235
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:00,319
it is so many people will say argument

1236
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:02,720
is truth reality truth is relative if

1237
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:04,640
you're in one set of circumstances one

1238
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:05,760
thing and if you're another set of

1239
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:07,280
circumstances another thing

1240
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:09,119
or if you have a different perspective

1241
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,040
on life death

1242
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,280
universe god whatever you'll have

1243
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:15,119
different kinds of truths and they're

1244
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:15,520
all

1245
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:18,800
sort of um able to

1246
00:44:23,349 --> 00:44:22,160
exist together in some meta truth

1247
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:23,359
dimensional

1248
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:27,119
sense the way we look at

1249
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:30,880
truth is that

1250
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:34,240
we deal on closer to truth

1251
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:37,280
with the kinds of questions

1252
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:40,400
that should i can't say

1253
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:43,440
absolutely does but i would feel

1254
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:46,560
very strongly that there is

1255
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:50,240
a truth to the questions we ask on

1256
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:53,359
closer to truth the large majority in

1257
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:56,560
cosmos consciousness for sure

1258
00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:00,160
and potentially on meaning as well and

1259
00:45:03,109 --> 00:45:02,079
i'd go out on a limb and say yes so when

1260
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,119
all of the

1261
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:05,359
topics that closer to truth deals with

1262
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:06,800
there may be exceptions

1263
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,400
that there really is an ultimate truth

1264
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:13,520
that is singular and absolute

1265
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:17,520
and non-relative now do i expect to ever

1266
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:20,800
know that no

1267
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:23,040
do i expect to make progress in

1268
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,319
understanding

1269
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:26,319
what those mean i think the answer is

1270
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,640
yes because we're able to

1271
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:30,560
ask the kinds of questions and see the

1272
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:31,680
diversity of

1273
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,720
of smart sophisticated coherent thinking

1274
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:35,839
on these topics

1275
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,720
even if they disagree radically on what

1276
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:39,599
that answer

1277
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:42,560
is on what that question is really

1278
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:43,680
asking

1279
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,359
so i would then take your question about

1280
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:48,960
what is truth

1281
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,240
and and limit it to how we deal with

1282
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:54,720
truth on closer to truth

1283
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:56,480
because we deal with the kinds of

1284
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:57,839
questions that

1285
00:46:01,430 --> 00:46:00,640
should and i believe do have an ultimate

1286
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:01,440
answer

1287
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:05,119
even if it is not possible even not

1288
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,119
possible in in principle

1289
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:09,440
to get to that truth but the kinds of

1290
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,319
truths that we

1291
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:13,680
seek do have absolute answers

1292
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:15,280
and those are the kinds of questions we

1293
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:17,920
want to ask that have to do

1294
00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:20,800
with you know big big fundamental

1295
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,720
questions

1296
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:24,800
when you say absolute answers to me

1297
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,960
that's still there's still quite a few

1298
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,800
theories of truth that that could

1299
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:30,240
qualify for so

1300
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:33,839
perhaps tarsky's or a realist not an

1301
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,960
anti-realist not a

1302
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:36,640
pragmatic those are more relative but

1303
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:37,760
then there's correspondence and

1304
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:38,560
coherence

1305
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,160
which could be seen as as subsets of uh

1306
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:44,720
of an absolute truth so which one like

1307
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:46,000
how so how do you know when you're

1308
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:47,280
getting closer to the truth

1309
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:50,319
or closer to truth if here's what i'm

1310
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:51,040
wondering

1311
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,119
one has an arrow and one wants to point

1312
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:54,960
it to a bullseye but if one doesn't know

1313
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:56,079
where the bullseye is

1314
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:57,920
then how does one know if one is getting

1315
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:00,880
closer and where to aim

1316
00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:04,079
uh i i i think you you know that by

1317
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:07,599
the um it's almost

1318
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:08,800
the difference between operant

1319
00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:11,440
conditioning and pavlovian conditioning

1320
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:12,880
operant conditioning you're just

1321
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:14,880
you're just selecting from the from the

1322
00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:17,280
universe of potential behaviors

1323
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:19,119
and i think that's what we're doing we

1324
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,200
we don't see the talk because if you see

1325
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,119
the target as clearly as you

1326
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:25,599
you've said as a as a bow and arrow to a

1327
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:26,400
target

1328
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:29,599
uh you then then you're imposing

1329
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,800
on the nature of truth your own biases

1330
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:35,280
and we're not doing that what we want to

1331
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:36,880
do is use

1332
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:40,400
a diversity of individuals uh who

1333
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:43,520
we have we believe uh doesn't mean we've

1334
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:43,839
got

1335
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:46,000
everyone or we're perfect by any means

1336
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:46,880
but

1337
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:50,160
to bring diverse smart coherent thinking

1338
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:51,440
to these kinds of

1339
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:54,880
questions and to to broaden the the

1340
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:57,040
uh the category of people that we work

1341
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:58,559
with and again we're

1342
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,559
wanting to do that with uh you know

1343
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,640
eastern traditions and global philosophy

1344
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:04,319
of religion uh we need to

1345
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,400
broaden our uh our our universe

1346
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:11,200
of people addressing those kinds of of

1347
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:12,000
questions

1348
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,119
that we ask

1349
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:17,680
i mean at its most uh a fundamental

1350
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:18,480
level

1351
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:22,400
in in um in cosmos is you know what are

1352
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:26,000
what is the ultimate um bedrock

1353
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:29,920
um uh uh undergirding

1354
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,119
of uh of the physical world uh

1355
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:35,280
is it quantum mechanics is it string

1356
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:36,480
theory is it something

1357
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:39,520
deeper below that you know what is it uh

1358
00:48:46,829 --> 00:48:43,440
in consciousness to ask a very

1359
00:48:49,750 --> 00:48:46,839
bimodal digital yes no

1360
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:49,760
answer does consciousness require

1361
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,960
anything beyond what we now call the

1362
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:54,880
physical

1363
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,240
neuronal level the synaptic level the

1364
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:02,400
intracellular level or the or the

1365
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:03,359
quantum level

1366
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:05,440
all of that is physical does

1367
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:06,559
consciousness

1368
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:12,000
and we can discuss what that means

1369
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:14,000
entirely explained in the physical world

1370
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:15,839
that's a yes or no answer

1371
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:18,720
does god as we've traditionally called

1372
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:19,680
god

1373
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:23,119
a um a being that created the universe

1374
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:24,240
that is

1375
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:27,440
whose existence uh is his essence and

1376
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,800
all of those things however you define

1377
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:30,400
the characteristics which we could also

1378
00:49:35,109 --> 00:49:31,839
talk about if you like

1379
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:35,119
um does that

1380
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,160
being uh existent exist

1381
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:40,480
that's a yes or no answer now one of the

1382
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:41,839
characteristics of it

1383
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:44,480
is a different one but on those

1384
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:45,920
questions so it doesn't really

1385
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,800
matter is that is is the word god

1386
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:50,720
correspond to a being who has those

1387
00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:52,559
characteristics

1388
00:49:58,950 --> 00:49:56,319
that that is a uh that is a

1389
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:58,960
helpful approach to understand what you

1390
00:50:01,670 --> 00:50:00,960
are what you mean by truth i agree with

1391
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,680
that

1392
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:03,280
but at the end of the day the kinds of

1393
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:05,440
questions we ask do have

1394
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:08,640
a a a deep

1395
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:12,240
absolute answer um which

1396
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:14,000
or you're hoping it has a deep absolute

1397
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:15,599
answer

1398
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,680
no no i i i would just i would say there

1399
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:19,040
is a deep answer

1400
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:21,599
now i may not know it i may not even be

1401
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:23,200
able to describe it

1402
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:26,640
but however you you deal with those

1403
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:28,559
questions does god exist or does

1404
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:29,680
consciousness require

1405
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:32,160
anything beyond the physical uh however

1406
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:33,200
you define it

1407
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:36,800
in some vague way whatever if that's

1408
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,160
right then that's the ultimate truth

1409
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,400
so there is an ultimate truth on how to

1410
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,640
describe these questions

1411
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,559
or how to give an answer to these

1412
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:49,040
questions i do not hope to

1413
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,400
achieve that i think i have come to

1414
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:54,480
understand and i hope our viewers who

1415
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:54,880
have

1416
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,000
taken the journey with us during

1417
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,559
these years that peter and i have

1418
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:02,400
greatly enjoyed

1419
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:05,119
appreciate these questions more than

1420
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:07,040
they have i know i do

1421
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:09,200
and i i thank you know the audiences

1422
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:10,880
that made it possible and

1423
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:12,800
foundations that have supported us as

1424
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:15,520
well as my own little foundation

1425
00:51:22,069 --> 00:51:18,960
uh to give us that opportunity but uh um

1426
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,079
the you know i call it we we

1427
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:25,440
luxuriate in the questions and in that

1428
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:26,640
process

1429
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:31,119
uh get a feel for the kind of uh

1430
00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:34,800
of uh of ambiance that answers would

1431
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:35,359
have

1432
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,559
on either direction and so uh

1433
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:40,640
you know if god exists or if god doesn't

1434
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,800
exist is conscious if consciousness is

1435
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:44,240
entirely physical

1436
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:45,680
or if there's something beyond the

1437
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,240
physical you know are there

1438
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:51,520
alien intelligences in the universe uh

1439
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:53,599
or no alien intelligences in the

1440
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:54,720
universe whatever these

1441
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:57,839
questions are that have answers we

1442
00:52:01,349 --> 00:52:00,000
believe that we have enriched the

1443
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,359
understanding

1444
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,359
not only of what the the importance of

1445
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:04,640
the category

1446
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:07,920
but also what it would mean if

1447
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:11,119
either side of the answer were true so

1448
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:14,079
we want to show what what either side is

1449
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,599
one of the great uh

1450
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:18,079
uh joys that i've had in closer to truth

1451
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:19,359
is to see

1452
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:23,040
um uh uh closer to truth being

1453
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:26,000
recommended by both theist and atheistic

1454
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:27,839
websites

1455
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:30,240
and people saying you know they may do a

1456
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:31,599
little bit on the other side but you

1457
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:32,960
know there's some really good stuff

1458
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:33,440
there

1459
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:35,040
that's a great compliment especially

1460
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:36,559
because both of those communities tend

1461
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,599
to be

1462
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:40,000
ardently against what they're not so if

1463
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:41,920
you're an atheist you dislike

1464
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:44,240
intensely when people talk about or

1465
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:45,440
entertain theism

1466
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:49,599
and vice versa how do you improve as an

1467
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:50,400
interviewer

1468
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:53,040
robert do you re-watch the episodes

1469
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:54,640
obviously you do when you're editing are

1470
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:56,400
you taking notes are you looking at your

1471
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,359
mannerisms

1472
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,359
are you thinking well what are you

1473
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:01,520
thinking that's a great question

1474
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:04,400
and and i think i have a personal

1475
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:05,440
deficit

1476
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:09,119
in not doing that um i don't like to do

1477
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:09,599
that

1478
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:19,040
i

1479
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,640
order to tell a story

1480
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:38,240
uh but in the raw interviews we let

1481
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,000
everything in um i

1482
00:53:44,309 --> 00:53:42,960
i guess psychologically i like to look

1483
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:44,319
to the future

1484
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:48,000
um i don't um i don't like

1485
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,480
dwelling uh and and seeing what i've

1486
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:51,920
done in the past

1487
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:55,359
and being happy about it or or

1488
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:58,720
feeling pride or correcting it

1489
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,119
i always want to look to the future so

1490
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:03,280
if i you know on my mind right now

1491
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:04,800
is the global philosophy of religion

1492
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,559
because we have these 20 interviews

1493
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:08,640
coming up over the next few months and

1494
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:10,240
you know i'm starting to prepare and

1495
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:11,839
learn about hinduism and

1496
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,760
islam at a greater depth than i've known

1497
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:15,520
before and i'm really looking forward to

1498
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,160
that

1499
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:18,319
um and similarly in philosophy of

1500
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:19,440
biology uh

1501
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,599
you know my background is from biology

1502
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,760
my bachelors was in human biology from

1503
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,200
johns hopkins

1504
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:28,559
but um you know i'm i'm out of that

1505
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:31,599
i'm not current in a lot of aspects of

1506
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:32,880
biology so i've been

1507
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:38,319
really learning about that and so um

1508
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:42,160
the my uh

1509
00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:45,440
my capacity as an interviewer is

1510
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:49,280
is related to my passion for the ideas

1511
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:52,400
and my desire to learn

1512
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:56,319
in preparation for the interview and to

1513
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:58,720
learn during the interview so it's not

1514
00:55:01,510 --> 00:55:00,799
that i'm just asking get my list out

1515
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,520
questions

1516
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:03,440
i really want to engage with that person

1517
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:04,640
and understand

1518
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:07,359
how that person thinks about it and once

1519
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:07,839
that's

1520
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:10,000
done yeah i'm on to the next i don't

1521
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:11,359
want to reflect back and you know i

1522
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:12,799
should have asked this i should have

1523
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:17,040
asked that um you know i mean there are

1524
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:19,920
you know mannerisms sometimes i'm

1525
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,640
looking

1526
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,640
down on people and i don't mean to do

1527
00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:24,559
that and i need to be told

1528
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:27,040
to do that peter's very good in his uh

1529
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:28,960
directorial activity

1530
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,839
he doesn't like my hair kind of nicely

1531
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:33,520
combed he likes it

1532
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:35,200
brushed up a little bit a little bit

1533
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:37,359
messy to kind of reflect uh

1534
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:40,640
kind of a kind of a scatter brained

1535
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:42,240
intellectual approach to things as

1536
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:44,240
opposed to

1537
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:48,240
a more patted down look so i'm not sure

1538
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,950
you mentioned that when you're in the

1539
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:54,160
interviews you're trying to be as

1540
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:55,440
engaged as you can be

1541
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:57,680
and that's something that but at the

1542
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,880
same time you have to wear different

1543
00:56:01,430 --> 00:56:00,240
hats because you're wondering about the

1544
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:01,440
audience

1545
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:02,720
maybe there are other factors that

1546
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:04,079
you're weighing and that's something

1547
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:05,440
that i struggle with as well

1548
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,440
and for better or worse i err on the

1549
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:08,960
side of

1550
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,640
me being engaged and asking the

1551
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:12,559
questions that i'm more interested in

1552
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:14,319
regardless of if they use too much

1553
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:16,240
jargon or technical depth even if some

1554
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:17,839
audience members will find it extremely

1555
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:18,880
simplistic or

1556
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:22,079
overly complicated and

1557
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:25,280
i imagine that limits the audience and i

1558
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:26,480
could

1559
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:28,240
monetarily benefit from a larger one and

1560
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,079
then invest in it so that then later i

1561
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:32,000
could go back to my previous style

1562
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:33,680
but it's a balancing act and i'm

1563
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:35,440
wondering what do you

1564
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:37,280
weigh and how do you make that decision

1565
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:39,200
so marketing is one

1566
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:41,040
your engagement the answering of your

1567
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:42,799
own questions is another

1568
00:56:48,069 --> 00:56:46,400
how do you navigate that that process

1569
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:48,079
you know in one sense honestly i don't

1570
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:50,400
try to navigate it i try to be

1571
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:53,599
as engaged and pos as possible and have

1572
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,400
the audience

1573
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:56,319
come with us and many people say that

1574
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:57,839
you know they don't understand a lot of

1575
00:57:02,309 --> 00:56:58,400
the

1576
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:02,319
and we'll watch it over and over again

1577
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:05,040
we have many many people like that and i

1578
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:05,599
love that

1579
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:07,839
about closer to truth in fact it's one

1580
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:08,720
of the

1581
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:12,640
is to see the diversity

1582
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,880
of people who are engaged and i i've

1583
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:16,960
kind of come to my own theory about this

1584
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:18,160
is that there are

1585
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:21,359
there is this subset of humanity that

1586
00:57:24,829 --> 00:57:23,440
really are engaged with these big

1587
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:24,839
questions

1588
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:28,319
of consciousness life after death how

1589
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,839
did the universe happen why is there

1590
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:31,440
something rather than nothing is there a

1591
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:31,839
god

1592
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:35,040
all those kinds of questions and that no

1593
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:39,200
externality by age

1594
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:42,319
economic democrats race religion creed

1595
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:45,200
national origin none of those factors

1596
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,760
are

1597
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:48,000
relevant i'm exaggerating maybe a little

1598
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:49,040
bit to to

1599
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:50,720
their engagement with with these

1600
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:52,240
questions uh

1601
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:54,559
the the best example that i can remember

1602
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:55,680
was a viewer in the

1603
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:58,160
early days of close to the truth a woman

1604
00:58:02,150 --> 00:57:59,680
who wrote in and said

1605
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:02,160
you know i've uh i've only had a high

1606
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:03,599
school education

1607
00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:06,000
uh but i love closer to chill love the

1608
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:07,839
questions that you asked uh

1609
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:09,599
and he said but i have my husband and i

1610
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:10,960
have five sons

1611
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:13,440
they think i'm nuts you know one's one

1612
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:14,559
one drives a truck

1613
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:17,920
and one is uh one and uh is a manager at

1614
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:19,040
a warehouse

1615
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,480
and they think their mother is

1616
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:22,480
absolutely crazy to be interested and

1617
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:22,880
watch

1618
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:26,240
this this show this obscure show

1619
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:30,000
and you said but recently my 13 year old

1620
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:31,599
grandson

1621
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:33,760
has engaged and has loved these

1622
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:34,880
questions so

1623
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:38,160
he and i my 13 year grandson and i

1624
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:41,520
secretly watch closer to truth when my

1625
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:44,240
husband and my sons and his father are

1626
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:45,680
not around

1627
00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:47,920
uh and to me that's a wonder was a

1628
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:49,520
wonderful story

1629
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:52,240
because superficially you would never

1630
00:58:56,069 --> 00:58:52,559
say

1631
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:56,079
that woman and that child were

1632
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:00,480
closer to truth's demographic focus

1633
00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:04,160
and so that that to me is exciting

1634
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:07,520
and so therefore i don't tr

1635
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:10,799
we don't try to reach a demographic

1636
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:13,119
um now as you get bigger people force

1637
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:14,640
you to do that and so i'm not saying

1638
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,520
repair but

1639
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:17,760
the the original concept of closer to

1640
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:19,200
truth is you know build it

1641
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:22,880
and see who comes um i remember when

1642
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:25,839
you know mel rogers and koce uh you know

1643
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:26,799
more than 20

1644
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:30,240
22 or so years ago now uh

1645
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,440
said you know maybe we can we can run it

1646
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:36,319
and i i you know i said to him even if

1647
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:38,000
you run it at three in the morning and

1648
00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:38,319
it's

1649
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:42,400
only on koce i'm excited to do this

1650
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:45,119
because i it was the passion of the

1651
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,520
ideas and the opportunity

1652
00:59:51,030 --> 00:59:49,920
and if people watch it and when they do

1653
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,040
and now

1654
00:59:54,630 --> 00:59:53,599
you know we have terrific numbers all

1655
00:59:56,309 --> 00:59:54,640
over the world on

1656
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:56,319
closer truth youtube and closer to

1657
01:00:01,829 --> 00:59:57,760
truth.com

1658
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:01,839
um you know that that's a that's a um

1659
01:00:06,309 --> 01:00:04,000
a great satisfaction but the

1660
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,319
satisfaction is not that oh yes we were

1661
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:08,400
right no no the satisfaction is

1662
01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:10,720
that there are other people in the world

1663
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:11,520
uh who

1664
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:13,440
have gone through the same things that i

1665
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:14,640
have

1666
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:17,839
sharing it together

1667
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:20,880
in in this global community that we're

1668
01:00:25,589 --> 01:00:22,000
all together and

1669
01:00:26,309 --> 01:00:25,599
it transcends all the externalities that

1670
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:26,319
um

1671
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:29,200
seem to divide us more so in today's

1672
01:00:31,990 --> 01:00:29,920
world

1673
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:32,000
that uh the the kinds of questions that

1674
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:33,839
we deal with and you deal with curt

1675
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:36,240
simile are the questions that unite us

1676
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:37,440
across all different

1677
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:38,880
uh you know breaking all different

1678
01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:41,760
barriers i read each of the papers that

1679
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:42,480
you sent me

1680
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,960
the pdfs thank you for that one sentence

1681
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:46,319
that

1682
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,079
stood out to me i wrote down it's simple

1683
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:50,319
sentence it says to me honestly nothing

1684
01:00:54,829 --> 01:00:51,280
makes sense

1685
01:01:04,230 --> 01:00:59,270
well

1686
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,240
when you said that there's absolute

1687
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,319
truth and i'm not

1688
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,400
critiquing absolute truth but to me that

1689
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:10,079
presumes classical logic

1690
01:01:13,109 --> 01:01:11,839
it either is true or it isn't and then

1691
01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:13,119
there are various forms of classical

1692
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:14,400
logic so how are you

1693
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:15,599
sorry there's not various forms of

1694
01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:17,040
classical logic there are various forms

1695
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:18,960
of logic intuitionist para consistent

1696
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:19,760
and so on

1697
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:21,440
so then why did you arrive at that and

1698
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:22,799
then also well

1699
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:24,480
what is it that you believe aft if

1700
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:25,920
nothing makes sense that's something

1701
01:01:28,390 --> 01:01:26,960
that i struggle with

1702
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,400
i'm also wondering how is it that you

1703
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:30,480
avoid this nihilistic

1704
01:01:36,069 --> 01:01:34,400
trap of of psychologically

1705
01:01:38,230 --> 01:01:36,079
home being homeless or philosophically

1706
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,240
being homeless i'll

1707
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:39,839
make those questions succinct so number

1708
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:42,799
one you're using a a form of logic

1709
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:46,880
why did you choose that one uh okay um

1710
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:49,440
let me let me uh go back to the to the

1711
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:52,319
the last one because structure

1712
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:55,440
because i i as i said i looked

1713
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:58,720
juried in the questions um and when i

1714
01:02:01,829 --> 01:01:59,119
said

1715
01:02:02,230 --> 01:02:01,839
nothing makes sense that that was not

1716
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:02,240
you know

1717
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:04,400
about everything in the world i mean i

1718
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:06,160
mean turn on the faucet the water comes

1719
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:07,200
out that makes sense

1720
01:02:10,390 --> 01:02:09,440
yeah unless you scrutinize it then you

1721
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:10,400
realize

1722
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:13,359
but th this was specifically about you

1723
01:02:19,829 --> 01:02:13,920
know

1724
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:19,839
what what is existence so you can have

1725
01:02:26,309 --> 01:02:21,920
one theory that you know

1726
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,319
god is uh is a a a necessary being and

1727
01:02:30,309 --> 01:02:27,839
god created the universe

1728
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:30,319
that's one theory another theory is that

1729
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,440
the laws

1730
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:33,440
the deep laws of physics whatever they

1731
01:02:42,789 --> 01:02:34,559
are

1732
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:42,799
and all i'm saying is of

1733
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:44,640
all those different categories none of

1734
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:46,240
them make sense

1735
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:49,520
and obviously one is true

1736
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:52,079
and you know that's that's where where

1737
01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:53,520
where i start now

1738
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:56,559
if when you get into the the classical

1739
01:03:02,309 --> 01:02:58,240
bimodal logic or the

1740
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:02,319
um the tetralemma logic of

1741
01:03:07,349 --> 01:03:05,760
of eastern traditions um you know i

1742
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:07,359
can't tell you i'm an expert in the

1743
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:08,160
difference

1744
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:12,000
in in how the tetralemma uh argument of

1745
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:15,280
of uh was it you know p or minus p

1746
01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:18,400
both both both plus v and minus v

1747
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:21,680
and minus playing you know each of those

1748
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:25,039
uh i i i think

1749
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:28,559
my senses is that those terms are in

1750
01:03:35,910 --> 01:03:32,559
that form of logic is being used in a

1751
01:03:39,029 --> 01:03:35,920
um in in in a in a blurry

1752
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:39,039
way and that um you know

1753
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:40,880
at the end of the day the kinds of

1754
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:42,480
questions that we ask

1755
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:46,240
have a a a digital yes no

1756
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:50,000
kind of answer once you define

1757
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:58,309
take the question is conscious does

1758
01:04:02,470 --> 01:03:59,599
consciousness demand

1759
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:02,480
anything beyond the purely physical

1760
01:04:05,670 --> 01:04:03,200
world

1761
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:05,680
now you can you can blur that question

1762
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:07,200
by say well what do you mean by

1763
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:11,039
physical and if you have a fifth force

1764
01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:13,599
of nature or a pan psychist point of

1765
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:14,720
view or

1766
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:17,359
you know does that count as physical or

1767
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:18,240
not physical

1768
01:04:23,750 --> 01:04:21,599
or how do you how do you work that out

1769
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:23,760
well that's that's a semantical point

1770
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:25,680
about what you deal but ultimately if

1771
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:27,039
that's the answer

1772
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:30,240
then that answer is becomes an absolute

1773
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:32,079
answer however you

1774
01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:34,400
create that answer even in a fuzzy

1775
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:35,760
manner

1776
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:38,960
so um to

1777
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:42,880
to deal with the question

1778
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:46,559
as i said does god exist or traditional

1779
01:04:50,069 --> 01:04:47,920
god or is there

1780
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:50,079
is consciousness demand anything beyond

1781
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:51,280
the physical

1782
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:54,240
um you know what what does it mean what

1783
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:54,960
would it mean

1784
01:05:02,230 --> 01:04:58,640
to have a uh a non-bimodal logic

1785
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:02,240
to those questions so if consciousness

1786
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:03,359
is uh physical

1787
01:05:06,829 --> 01:05:05,520
it requires something beyond the

1788
01:05:09,510 --> 01:05:06,839
physical

1789
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:09,520
um if that's

1790
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:11,839
either does or doesn't but if you have a

1791
01:05:14,390 --> 01:05:13,760
four-fold logic it would it would say

1792
01:05:18,390 --> 01:05:14,400
that

1793
01:05:19,029 --> 01:05:18,400
it it it um uh it doesn't dozens at the

1794
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:19,039
same time

1795
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:21,760
or it doesn't and does doesn't doesn't

1796
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:24,240
and both are wrong

1797
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:28,559
um and and that can give you an insight

1798
01:05:32,710 --> 01:05:31,359
into the complexity of these questions

1799
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:32,720
but ultimately there

1800
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:34,960
is there has to be some kind of an

1801
01:05:39,510 --> 01:05:36,240
answer they can't

1802
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:39,520
you you can't if if

1803
01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:41,359
if we're defining the physical world and

1804
01:05:45,589 --> 01:05:43,039
again you can you can expand your

1805
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:45,599
thinking of what the physical world is

1806
01:05:49,910 --> 01:05:48,079
that's another set of issues but if you

1807
01:05:51,109 --> 01:05:49,920
restrict it to the physical world and

1808
01:05:53,589 --> 01:05:51,119
his consciousness

1809
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:53,599
demanding more of that what would it

1810
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:54,319
mean

1811
01:05:58,549 --> 01:05:57,280
to say there's a to use the other two

1812
01:06:00,950 --> 01:05:58,559
forms of logic

1813
01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:00,960
to that question that means it does and

1814
01:06:06,549 --> 01:06:04,000
doesn't at the same time

1815
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:06,559
it it it does require something

1816
01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:07,440
non-physical

1817
01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:11,200
both are true

1818
01:06:15,990 --> 01:06:14,160
if that's the case if that's the case

1819
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:16,000
it's hard to conceive but if that's the

1820
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:16,640
case

1821
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:20,160
if does and doesn't at the same time

1822
01:06:27,029 --> 01:06:23,680
the fact that it does i think would

1823
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:27,039
would skew the answer to that it it does

1824
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:27,760
because

1825
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,440
it's kind of a possible world analysis

1826
01:06:35,510 --> 01:06:34,079
uh this is a technique in philosophy you

1827
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:35,520
may be familiar with in it

1828
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:39,119
it asks what happens in in every

1829
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:41,280
possible world now possible world is it

1830
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:41,520
an

1831
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,599
entire state of affairs so it's not just

1832
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:47,760
a world like a planet or something it's

1833
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:48,960
it's the

1834
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,000
it's all reality and a different

1835
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:54,000
possible world could be you know if

1836
01:06:57,430 --> 01:06:56,079
there are 10 to the 90th

1837
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:57,440
particles in the universe if one

1838
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:00,960
particle is in a slightly different um

1839
01:07:04,390 --> 01:07:03,200
polarization that's a separate world

1840
01:07:04,710 --> 01:07:04,400
everything else could be the same so

1841
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:04,720
there's an

1842
01:07:09,029 --> 01:07:06,880
infinite number of possible worlds so

1843
01:07:12,549 --> 01:07:09,039
you ask questions

1844
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:12,559
is something possible

1845
01:07:16,150 --> 01:07:15,039
is to ask is in any possible world can

1846
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:16,160
that exist

1847
01:07:20,309 --> 01:07:18,799
now there's the the this has been used

1848
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,319
in what's called the ontological

1849
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:22,160
argument for god's existence

1850
01:07:26,829 --> 01:07:23,920
which basically says you know if you can

1851
01:07:29,589 --> 01:07:26,839
conceive of a god that is uh

1852
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:29,599
maximally everything uh you know

1853
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:33,920
totally omni uh or omnipresent or

1854
01:07:39,109 --> 01:07:37,280
everywhere omnipotent omniscient uh um

1855
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:39,119
if you can all of those things the

1856
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:41,280
maximum possible guard that which there

1857
01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:43,280
cannot be anything greater

1858
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:46,400
um could that you don't know where that

1859
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:47,760
god exists but could that

1860
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:50,400
go could that kind of god exist in one

1861
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:52,720
possible world yeah maybe i could

1862
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:55,200
maybe maybe i'd see in a zillion

1863
01:07:59,190 --> 01:07:57,119
infinite number of possible worlds maybe

1864
01:08:01,349 --> 01:07:59,200
one of them that kind of god could exist

1865
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:01,359
so when you when you admit that and then

1866
01:08:06,549 --> 01:08:03,280
you go into that possible world

1867
01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:06,559
in that possible world god is all

1868
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:09,520
uh a god it is a necessary being so if

1869
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:10,480
god's

1870
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:13,599
unnecessary being in that one world then

1871
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:15,680
it has to be if it's a necessary being

1872
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:16,960
god has to exist

1873
01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:19,920
and so you've gotten into a logical trap

1874
01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:20,319
uh

1875
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:22,719
i don't believe the ontological argument

1876
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:24,480
proves god's existence

1877
01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:26,480
but very smart philosophers have

1878
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:28,159
difficulty finding out the

1879
01:08:33,829 --> 01:08:31,440
the error in the in the argument that i

1880
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:33,839
just made which is the called the modal

1881
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:36,080
ontological argument for god's existence

1882
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:38,000
uh it doesn't work for sure

1883
01:08:43,829 --> 01:08:40,719
i mean i don't believe that but it is a

1884
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,839
tricky argument so now what that does

1885
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:45,600
is it goes back to the questions we're

1886
01:08:51,910 --> 01:08:48,560
asking in a four-fold logic system

1887
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:51,920
if you have a consciousness being

1888
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:53,120
something that

1889
01:08:59,110 --> 01:08:56,719
uh is both um

1890
01:08:59,749 --> 01:08:59,120
fully explained by the physical world

1891
01:09:01,590 --> 01:08:59,759
and

1892
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:01,600
not fully explained by the physical

1893
01:09:06,229 --> 01:09:03,440
world which contradicts

1894
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:06,239
our twofold logic classical logic that

1895
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:07,520
would seem to indicate

1896
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:10,400
even with that four-fold logic that in

1897
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:11,279
one of those

1898
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:14,560
one possible world consciousness uh

1899
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:16,799
does require something beyond the

1900
01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:17,679
physical

1901
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:20,799
and therefore it it would indicate that

1902
01:09:36,229 --> 01:09:21,679
it

1903
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,239
um so i mean that's an argument

1904
01:09:40,550 --> 01:09:39,120
that i i would i would at least uh

1905
01:09:44,870 --> 01:09:40,560
suggest

1906
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:44,880
that shows that a the four-fold logic

1907
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:48,080
is helpful in in

1908
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,960
being able to see deeply into some of

1909
01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:52,560
these very hard questions

1910
01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:54,239
and i need to learn more about about

1911
01:09:58,950 --> 01:09:56,080
that and and

1912
01:10:00,630 --> 01:09:58,960
uh and i look forward to to doing that

1913
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:00,640
and when we're dealing with

1914
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,159
global philosophy of religion and

1915
01:10:06,470 --> 01:10:04,239
eastern traditions and the big questions

1916
01:10:10,149 --> 01:10:06,480
of these two big series coming up

1917
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:10,159
um we'll we'll explore that um

1918
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:13,760
and i think those that that complexity

1919
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:14,960
of logic

1920
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:18,239
enables a deeper understanding of what

1921
01:10:22,149 --> 01:10:19,760
these questions mean

1922
01:10:23,590 --> 01:10:22,159
uh but i'm still you know backward

1923
01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:23,600
enough or west

1924
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:26,400
too westernized to to think that at the

1925
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:27,520
end of the day

1926
01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:30,800
uh it uh it it it is going to alter my

1927
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:32,000
thinking about

1928
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,440
the the the uh the fact that there is an

1929
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:37,440
answer to these questions within a

1930
01:10:42,630 --> 01:10:39,360
twofold logic classical system

1931
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:42,640
system okay let's harp on this for a bit

1932
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:46,159
with the twofold logical system you said

1933
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:48,640
it's obvious it's either yes or no and

1934
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:51,040
then you gave a case where it's

1935
01:10:54,310 --> 01:10:53,040
imagine consciousness both is physical

1936
01:10:56,470 --> 01:10:54,320
and not physical but you can

1937
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:56,480
develop a logical system where it's not

1938
01:10:59,430 --> 01:10:57,760
true that consciousness

1939
01:11:00,870 --> 01:10:59,440
is physical but it is true that

1940
01:11:03,669 --> 01:11:00,880
consciousness is physical and

1941
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:03,679
not physical if you put the bracket

1942
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:05,360
behind both true and not true

1943
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,880
but not true in the singular for the

1944
01:11:09,910 --> 01:11:08,480
consciousness

1945
01:11:11,590 --> 01:11:09,920
and then you said well it's obviously

1946
01:11:13,510 --> 01:11:11,600
true but

1947
01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:13,520
i don't i don't necessarily see it as

1948
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:15,040
being obvious because

1949
01:11:18,149 --> 01:11:16,640
well firstly as a scientist your whole

1950
01:11:20,550 --> 01:11:18,159
point is to question what's obvious

1951
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:20,560
so dispense with the word obvious when

1952
01:11:23,910 --> 01:11:21,600
you're a scientist

1953
01:11:25,030 --> 01:11:23,920
and number two if you've been emailed

1954
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:25,040
several theories about

1955
01:11:30,390 --> 01:11:27,520
zero or you're going to be interviewing

1956
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:30,400
indian philosophers about zero

1957
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:32,560
often they have this notion that zero is

1958
01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:34,080
the same as infinity and thus it's the

1959
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:35,840
same as all possible worlds

1960
01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:38,080
and thus you can see how it can be true

1961
01:11:41,189 --> 01:11:39,920
and not true at the same time so i don't

1962
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:41,199
see it obviously being

1963
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:48,790
yeah um and so and so as i think that i

1964
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:49,199
think

1965
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:51,520
what we're doing is enriching the

1966
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:54,239
understanding of aspects of of reality

1967
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:54,480
and

1968
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:57,600
uh

1969
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:00,640
to appreciate that better um but

1970
01:12:03,910 --> 01:12:02,560
i i don't think you're going to shake me

1971
01:12:06,149 --> 01:12:03,920
off my uh

1972
01:12:07,270 --> 01:12:06,159
my view that at the end of the day there

1973
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:07,280
is

1974
01:12:18,709 --> 01:12:17,440
the the correct and the one that

1975
01:12:21,510 --> 01:12:18,719
corresponds to

1976
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:21,520
to the reality it can be much more

1977
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:23,440
sophisticated or complex

1978
01:12:28,470 --> 01:12:26,640
than i would think now and you're

1979
01:12:30,790 --> 01:12:28,480
describing ways maybe that's

1980
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:30,800
the case but if that is the case then

1981
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:31,600
that is the

1982
01:12:36,229 --> 01:12:34,880
that is how to define it you also

1983
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:36,239
you mentioned in one of your articles or

1984
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:38,000
many of your articles that you dislike

1985
01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:40,000
faith

1986
01:12:46,830 --> 01:12:44,000
now do you see anything i i i

1987
01:12:48,149 --> 01:12:46,840
that that's a probably an um slightly

1988
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:48,159
mischaracterization

1989
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,280
it's not that i dislike it um

1990
01:12:54,870 --> 01:12:53,520
maybe i like it it's just that i don't

1991
01:12:57,350 --> 01:12:54,880
have it

1992
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:57,360
okay okay so you don't have faith do you

1993
01:13:01,830 --> 01:12:58,800
see any

1994
01:13:03,110 --> 01:13:01,840
aspects of faith in the answer that you

1995
01:13:06,149 --> 01:13:03,120
can't be shaken from your

1996
01:13:07,910 --> 01:13:06,159
beliefs about whether or not

1997
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:07,920
there's one answer to a question yes or

1998
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:13,910
once again when i'm saying there's one

1999
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:16,000
answer to it i'm not saying that i know

2000
01:13:21,430 --> 01:13:18,480
what each side of those answers are now

2001
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:21,440
uh i am saying that when we define

2002
01:13:27,270 --> 01:13:25,040
the um the structure of of the

2003
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:27,280
of the answer there is one way to define

2004
01:13:30,950 --> 01:13:28,400
that structure

2005
01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:30,960
even if parts of it have uncertainty or

2006
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:31,600
however

2007
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:35,600
you define that

2008
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:38,000
there is ultimately an answer to those

2009
01:13:42,790 --> 01:13:39,120
those questions

2010
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:42,800
it is that you can that you can

2011
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:46,880
phrase um you know the issue of faith

2012
01:13:53,910 --> 01:13:50,640
is in a different kind of category um

2013
01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:53,920
uh you know faith is is a belief in

2014
01:13:56,709 --> 01:13:55,520
something the evidence may be of which

2015
01:14:00,390 --> 01:13:56,719
you don't see

2016
01:14:03,669 --> 01:14:00,400
um and in various religions

2017
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:03,679
uh that is a virtue and i i see it as a

2018
01:14:08,229 --> 01:14:04,719
virtue

2019
01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:08,239
and i admire people who have it that

2020
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:09,920
doesn't mean i think it's either correct

2021
01:14:13,910 --> 01:14:11,440
or that i

2022
01:14:15,270 --> 01:14:13,920
uh want it maybe i would want it but i i

2023
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:15,280
don't have it the way

2024
01:14:21,910 --> 01:14:18,719
many people have faith um

2025
01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:21,920
when i'm talking about uh my

2026
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:24,960
belief that there are ultimate answers

2027
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:26,719
to these questions even if we can never

2028
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:28,640
even define what that is

2029
01:14:34,149 --> 01:14:31,920
uh i i don't think that that's a a a

2030
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:34,159
i wouldn't characterize that as faith

2031
01:14:38,229 --> 01:14:35,360
although

2032
01:14:39,030 --> 01:14:38,239
it's it's it is part of my belief system

2033
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:39,040
um

2034
01:14:45,750 --> 01:14:43,920
and you know happy to question it

2035
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:45,760
i'm not coming at this from a theist's

2036
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:47,280
point of view or an atheist's point of

2037
01:14:50,310 --> 01:14:47,920
view

2038
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:50,320
i'm just playing devil's advocate when

2039
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:51,679
it comes to faith

2040
01:14:54,950 --> 01:14:54,000
i hear people say many times that they

2041
01:14:56,550 --> 01:14:54,960
don't like belief

2042
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:56,560
they don't like faith no i'm not saying

2043
01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:58,400
you didn't you said this and i apologize

2044
01:15:03,189 --> 01:15:00,000
if i misquoted you

2045
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:03,199
but when people say faith faith is

2046
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:05,040
actually

2047
01:15:14,070 --> 01:15:09,280
manifold they're i think on the

2048
01:15:16,229 --> 01:15:14,080
stanford encyclopedia there's

2049
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:16,239
there's doxastic venture non-doxastic

2050
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:18,159
venture special knowledge hope

2051
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:21,600
belief affective confidence

2052
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:24,640
trust and sure then when someone says

2053
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:25,760
they don't have faith well

2054
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:27,280
do you not have trust do you never have

2055
01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:29,760
confidence and then when someone says

2056
01:15:33,189 --> 01:15:31,600
well i only trust what i have evidence

2057
01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:33,199
for yeah but you're presuming

2058
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:35,280
what evidence counts as so let's say

2059
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:36,640
someone from the eastern tradition would

2060
01:15:40,390 --> 01:15:38,320
prioritize experiential knowledge

2061
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:40,400
but then you not saying you sorry i'm

2062
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:41,440
saying one may

2063
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:45,040
prioritize scientific verification

2064
01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:46,800
okay but you've just slipped the

2065
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:48,960
question because you've just

2066
01:15:52,229 --> 01:15:50,880
i've asked you do you have faith you say

2067
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:52,239
only believe what i have evidence for

2068
01:15:56,070 --> 01:15:54,159
well what counts as the evidence and

2069
01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:56,080
then you have a an assumption there as

2070
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:56,800
to what

2071
01:16:00,070 --> 01:15:58,640
is accurate evidence so what do you say

2072
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:00,080
to that

2073
01:16:03,350 --> 01:16:01,840
yeah look i think those are all very

2074
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,360
legitimate questions we've been dealing

2075
01:16:05,669 --> 01:16:04,640
with that on closer to truth because a

2076
01:16:08,229 --> 01:16:05,679
lot of people

2077
01:16:08,950 --> 01:16:08,239
will ask us to interview x y and z

2078
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:08,960
person who

2079
01:16:15,430 --> 01:16:12,719
are people of uh of spirituality

2080
01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:15,440
in various traditions many of them are

2081
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:17,360
from eastern traditions but also in

2082
01:16:24,470 --> 01:16:21,120
christian judeo-christians who are

2083
01:16:28,630 --> 01:16:24,480
messengers of uh of uh experiential

2084
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:28,640
uh truths um and we're

2085
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:31,040
we're not saying we reject that we're

2086
01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:32,719
saying that that's just not part of the

2087
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:34,000
way we

2088
01:16:39,189 --> 01:16:37,199
we we address these questions but

2089
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:39,199
recognize that those are

2090
01:16:44,630 --> 01:16:41,520
answered that those are approaches that

2091
01:16:46,830 --> 01:16:44,640
many people feel are not only

2092
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:46,840
legitimate but are more legitimate than

2093
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:50,000
the quasi-analytic scientific approach

2094
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:50,719
that we have

2095
01:16:54,470 --> 01:16:53,600
i i distinguish by the way between

2096
01:16:58,070 --> 01:16:54,480
scientific

2097
01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:58,080
thinking

2098
01:17:04,630 --> 01:17:01,199
and i do not believe that

2099
01:17:07,270 --> 01:17:04,640
all truths of significant nature are

2100
01:17:08,950 --> 01:17:07,280
accessible by the scientific method

2101
01:17:11,910 --> 01:17:08,960
which is

2102
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:11,920
experiments or observation repeatability

2103
01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:13,920
testing etc

2104
01:17:17,669 --> 01:17:15,760
i do not think many of the questions are

2105
01:17:20,070 --> 01:17:17,679
susceptible to that because

2106
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:20,080
science the scientific method has a

2107
01:17:24,229 --> 01:17:21,280
physicalism

2108
01:17:25,270 --> 01:17:24,239
um foundation and so anything outside of

2109
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:25,280
physicalism

2110
01:17:28,709 --> 01:17:28,000
would not be subject to the scientific

2111
01:17:32,709 --> 01:17:28,719
method

2112
01:17:36,149 --> 01:17:32,719
by definition so none of these questions

2113
01:17:36,709 --> 01:17:36,159
can really get at if there is something

2114
01:17:38,470 --> 01:17:36,719
beyond

2115
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:38,480
the physical world through a scientific

2116
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:39,920
method however

2117
01:17:45,750 --> 01:17:43,199
that does not free you from

2118
01:17:47,669 --> 01:17:45,760
a scientific way of thinking and a

2119
01:17:51,030 --> 01:17:47,679
scientific way of thinking

2120
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:51,040
has to have a logic

2121
01:17:57,830 --> 01:17:54,960
built into it and has to have knowledge

2122
01:17:59,669 --> 01:17:57,840
of the sea of the sequence of the flows

2123
01:18:03,750 --> 01:17:59,679
of your argument

2124
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:03,760
and i am i try to be very rigorous

2125
01:18:07,430 --> 01:18:06,400
about putting people to that test uh

2126
01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:07,440
this particularly

2127
01:18:10,830 --> 01:18:09,440
would be in philosophy of religion to

2128
01:18:14,149 --> 01:18:10,840
theists and even

2129
01:18:15,270 --> 01:18:14,159
atheists um and forcing people if they

2130
01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:15,280
want to take me

2131
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:18,320
to a belief in god or belief in

2132
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:20,480
cosmic consciousness or idealism or

2133
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:21,440
something

2134
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:24,960
um i i want to see the progression of

2135
01:18:28,709 --> 01:18:26,000
steps

2136
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,719
that goes from what what we all know

2137
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:30,880
with third-party verification

2138
01:18:35,350 --> 01:18:34,159
that we all can agree upon and to their

2139
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:35,360
conclusion

2140
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:38,159
and in virtually every case there will

2141
01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:39,040
be gaps

2142
01:18:44,149 --> 01:18:42,560
in the logical flow because you can't go

2143
01:18:46,709 --> 01:18:44,159
from a scientific

2144
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:46,719
method of understanding the world to

2145
01:18:50,790 --> 01:18:47,600
getting something

2146
01:18:54,390 --> 01:18:50,800
outside of of what the scientific method

2147
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,400
can access you can't do that it's just

2148
01:18:58,870 --> 01:18:56,960
such a self self contradictory and so

2149
01:19:02,149 --> 01:18:58,880
all i want to do

2150
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:02,159
is to point out where those gaps are

2151
01:19:09,030 --> 01:19:05,440
and how those gaps are are are bridged

2152
01:19:12,310 --> 01:19:09,040
it and and that that's a very fair

2153
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:12,320
and legitimate and coherent kind of

2154
01:19:16,709 --> 01:19:13,360
analysis

2155
01:19:17,990 --> 01:19:16,719
is to go uh from what we all can agree

2156
01:19:19,990 --> 01:19:18,000
upon

2157
01:19:22,229 --> 01:19:20,000
to questions about the existence of god

2158
01:19:25,510 --> 01:19:22,239
or the nature of consciousness um

2159
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:25,520
or life after death or whatever um as a

2160
01:19:29,910 --> 01:19:28,320
as a belief but i want to see when

2161
01:19:32,790 --> 01:19:29,920
you're making those

2162
01:19:34,149 --> 01:19:32,800
those jumps over that you're that you're

2163
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:34,159
leaping over

2164
01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:37,280
a uh a logical flow

2165
01:19:43,510 --> 01:19:40,320
um and and then we point those

2166
01:19:46,630 --> 01:19:43,520
areas out and you're entirely uh

2167
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:46,640
um justified

2168
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:50,159
in making those jumps but i just want to

2169
01:19:53,510 --> 01:19:51,840
be sure that we're all aware that they

2170
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:53,520
are because many times people make those

2171
01:19:57,910 --> 01:19:54,800
jumps and not aware of it

2172
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:57,920
and that to me is not acceptable so

2173
01:20:01,990 --> 01:20:00,239
you and if you want to use faith or you

2174
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:02,000
know the inner experience that you've

2175
01:20:04,870 --> 01:20:03,199
had with the

2176
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:04,880
you know with your religious belief

2177
01:20:09,189 --> 01:20:07,040
that's fine i just want to know where in

2178
01:20:11,189 --> 01:20:09,199
the sequence of steps that's occurring

2179
01:20:12,310 --> 01:20:11,199
and then we we really have a deep

2180
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:12,320
understanding

2181
01:20:16,870 --> 01:20:15,280
of what that that process is and if you

2182
01:20:18,390 --> 01:20:16,880
want to call that faith during that time

2183
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:18,400
fine but i want to see where that's

2184
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:19,040
occurring

2185
01:20:22,870 --> 01:20:21,360
so then we're all on the same sort of

2186
01:20:30,629 --> 01:20:22,880
logical

2187
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:30,639
by seeming to be so you know scientific

2188
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:33,840
way of thinking or analytic philosophy i

2189
01:20:40,229 --> 01:20:37,120
want to be clear that i do not reject

2190
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:40,239
at all the those who

2191
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:44,320
use other ways of knowing experiential

2192
01:20:49,750 --> 01:20:48,080
religious um as coming to what may be

2193
01:20:51,270 --> 01:20:49,760
true i don't i do not reject it i just

2194
01:20:54,790 --> 01:20:51,280
want to be very clear

2195
01:20:58,229 --> 01:20:54,800
where those gaps are being uh uh

2196
01:21:02,390 --> 01:20:58,239
leaped uh left uh and

2197
01:21:04,390 --> 01:21:02,400
and the um and to acknowledge those

2198
01:21:05,990 --> 01:21:04,400
and to you know call that faith or call

2199
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:06,000
that whatever but just to see

2200
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:09,040
the sequence of thinking from you know

2201
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:10,560
what we can all agree upon

2202
01:21:13,669 --> 01:21:12,400
to what your conclusion is which we may

2203
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:13,679
not agree upon

2204
01:21:17,350 --> 01:21:15,280
you know how you're how you're going

2205
01:21:18,790 --> 01:21:17,360
through that process that's that's what

2206
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:18,800
we try to do and if we can all

2207
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:21,120
all do that together i i think we will

2208
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:24,000
we will have better communications

2209
01:21:28,629 --> 01:21:25,920
does science or the scientific method

2210
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:28,639
presume physicalism or give evidence for

2211
01:21:35,590 --> 01:21:34,629
i i think this the scientific method

2212
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:35,600
which is the

2213
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:38,880
uh the way science works is

2214
01:21:44,790 --> 01:21:42,080
uh is the core

2215
01:21:45,750 --> 01:21:44,800
way that you understand the physical

2216
01:21:48,790 --> 01:21:45,760
world

2217
01:21:49,990 --> 01:21:48,800
and the the two are inextricably bound

2218
01:21:52,550 --> 01:21:50,000
together

2219
01:21:53,350 --> 01:21:52,560
science is the use of the scientific

2220
01:21:56,390 --> 01:21:53,360
method

2221
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:56,400
to understand the physical world um

2222
01:22:02,149 --> 01:21:59,840
and the the physical world is the uh

2223
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:02,159
is the substrate by which the scientific

2224
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:03,679
method works

2225
01:22:09,270 --> 01:22:07,520
um and you can't go

2226
01:22:11,590 --> 01:22:09,280
beyond that you should not go beyond

2227
01:22:14,310 --> 01:22:11,600
that the only thing i

2228
01:22:14,629 --> 01:22:14,320
began to repeat is that i i generalize

2229
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:14,639
it

2230
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:16,400
from scientific methods to scientific

2231
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:17,920
way of thinking

2232
01:22:21,910 --> 01:22:20,159
in order to get beyond the physical

2233
01:22:23,189 --> 01:22:21,920
world if there is such a thing beyond

2234
01:22:25,669 --> 01:22:23,199
the physical world

2235
01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:25,679
um in whatever sense consciousness guide

2236
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:27,440
whatever spiritual stuff

2237
01:22:32,790 --> 01:22:30,480
if there is um to use a scientific way

2238
01:22:36,149 --> 01:22:32,800
of thinking because you surely cannot

2239
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:36,159
use a a scientific method uh

2240
01:22:42,390 --> 01:22:39,600
to to get there so i i

2241
01:22:44,229 --> 01:22:42,400
would be very suspect of people who try

2242
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:44,239
to use a scientific method to

2243
01:22:48,870 --> 01:22:47,520
prove things beyond the physical world i

2244
01:22:52,149 --> 01:22:48,880
think that's

2245
01:22:53,590 --> 01:22:52,159
that's contradictory well i know that

2246
01:22:55,030 --> 01:22:53,600
you have a scheduled interview for

2247
01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:55,040
bernardo castro

2248
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:56,960
i maybe it's unconfirmed but you're in

2249
01:23:01,750 --> 01:22:58,080
talks with him

2250
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:01,760
and he makes an extreme

2251
01:23:06,070 --> 01:23:03,600
extremely cogent argument that the

2252
01:23:07,830 --> 01:23:06,080
scientific method presumes no philosophy

2253
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:07,840
doesn't presume materialism physicalism

2254
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:10,719
or idealism and what's happened was

2255
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:13,440
a grave error where we think we have

2256
01:23:16,470 --> 01:23:14,639
initially these

2257
01:23:17,669 --> 01:23:16,480
pixels of perception i'm seeing you

2258
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:17,679
right now and you see a

2259
01:23:20,229 --> 01:23:18,880
you see paintings well you can't see the

2260
01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:20,239
paintings behind you if you were to look

2261
01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:21,840
you would see the paintings behind you

2262
01:23:24,950 --> 01:23:24,320
and then we see regularities in our

2263
01:23:26,470 --> 01:23:24,960
perception

2264
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:26,480
our perceptive field so we start with

2265
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:27,760
these mental states then we see

2266
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:28,639
perceptive

2267
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:31,040
regularities and then we start to make

2268
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:32,800
models about them and then at some point

2269
01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:33,600
we assume

2270
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:36,000
that this exists as an entity in and of

2271
01:23:40,390 --> 01:23:37,920
itself

2272
01:23:41,830 --> 01:23:40,400
and that posits a completely new

2273
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:41,840
ontological category

2274
01:23:45,110 --> 01:23:43,440
when one if one is to take scientific

2275
01:23:46,790 --> 01:23:45,120
modeling

2276
01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:46,800
seriously it uses a principle called

2277
01:23:49,590 --> 01:23:48,639
parsimony so you want the minimal amount

2278
01:23:53,110 --> 01:23:49,600
of assumptions

2279
01:23:54,390 --> 01:23:53,120
and i i don't see a flaw with this

2280
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:54,400
argument that the minimal amount of

2281
01:23:57,030 --> 01:23:56,080
assumptions would lead you naturally to

2282
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:57,040
idealism

2283
01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:00,719
i'm saying that i don't see how one can

2284
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:02,400
hold both parsimony

2285
01:24:09,270 --> 01:24:05,199
and physicalism or at least parsimony

2286
01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:11,590
well parsimony is a is a principle i

2287
01:24:14,470 --> 01:24:12,719
mean einstein

2288
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:14,480
you know he has a lot of quotes i assume

2289
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:16,000
this is accurate but he

2290
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:18,400
said make things as simple as simple as

2291
01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:19,440
possible but not

2292
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,360
simpler so you know general relativity

2293
01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:25,199
to some people is extremely simple these

2294
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:26,400
elegant equations and

2295
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:27,840
others it's uh you know it's

2296
01:24:33,030 --> 01:24:29,760
incomprehensible um

2297
01:24:36,390 --> 01:24:33,040
and so parsimony is

2298
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:36,400
is great but doesn't always

2299
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:39,120
work i mean the orbits of the planets

2300
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:39,760
peak

2301
01:24:42,790 --> 01:24:41,600
philosophers and you know quasi

2302
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:42,800
scientists in

2303
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:44,960
antiquity you know assumed that there

2304
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:45,920
were some

2305
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:48,960
wheels within wheels and then some

2306
01:24:52,629 --> 01:24:51,920
platonic structures that had all the

2307
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:52,639
orbits and

2308
01:24:55,990 --> 01:24:55,360
the orbits are just not that way they're

2309
01:24:57,750 --> 01:24:56,000
all

2310
01:24:58,629 --> 01:24:57,760
based upon some basic principles but

2311
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:58,639
they're all have their own

2312
01:25:02,550 --> 01:25:00,000
characteristics

2313
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:02,560
so you know simplistic and and and

2314
01:25:05,990 --> 01:25:03,360
parsimony

2315
01:25:07,030 --> 01:25:06,000
is a very good principle but it is not

2316
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:07,040
it is not

2317
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:10,080
a certainty to access

2318
01:25:14,390 --> 01:25:13,360
reality um yeah i understand all those

2319
01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:14,400
arguments uh

2320
01:25:19,830 --> 01:25:17,760
you know i uh bernardo and and we uh

2321
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:19,840
we're trying to get together we have

2322
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:21,920
closer truth has a difficult um

2323
01:25:25,669 --> 01:25:23,920
uh schedule because of our as i told you

2324
01:25:27,510 --> 01:25:25,679
the productions are very

2325
01:25:29,270 --> 01:25:27,520
very significant but um you know next

2326
01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:29,280
year we hope to be we

2327
01:25:33,669 --> 01:25:31,760
plan to be we will be in the uk and uh

2328
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:33,679
bernardo will be on so we will deal with

2329
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:35,840
these things in great detail and uh look

2330
01:25:40,629 --> 01:25:36,719
forward to it

2331
01:25:44,310 --> 01:25:40,639
um but uh the kinds of arguments that

2332
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:44,320
that uh you're posing you know lead very

2333
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:45,120
quickly to

2334
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:47,760
you know total skepticism and you know

2335
01:25:51,430 --> 01:25:49,520
that i can make that argument

2336
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:51,440
as well because it's it's the brain and

2337
01:25:54,950 --> 01:25:53,679
the vat i mean anything i'm perceiving

2338
01:25:57,510 --> 01:25:54,960
and i'm perceiving

2339
01:25:58,950 --> 01:25:57,520
you know through my brain that's why i

2340
01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:58,960
originally wanted to

2341
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:01,199
do my phd in brain science rather than

2342
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:02,960
physics or philosophy or other things i

2343
01:26:07,030 --> 01:26:04,400
was thinking about because

2344
01:26:08,550 --> 01:26:07,040
i had the thought that everything comes

2345
01:26:10,790 --> 01:26:08,560
through your brain and so if

2346
01:26:12,550 --> 01:26:10,800
we understand the brain we can have a

2347
01:26:14,470 --> 01:26:12,560
better sense of

2348
01:26:16,070 --> 01:26:14,480
of reality because that's our only way

2349
01:26:17,590 --> 01:26:16,080
of perception so we're never going to

2350
01:26:20,629 --> 01:26:17,600
get around that i mean that's

2351
01:26:21,830 --> 01:26:20,639
that's obvious and so from that you can

2352
01:26:25,070 --> 01:26:21,840
have all sorts of

2353
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:25,080
different derivations of you know

2354
01:26:30,390 --> 01:26:26,560
anti-realism

2355
01:26:34,070 --> 01:26:30,400
is is an easy argument to make because

2356
01:26:36,390 --> 01:26:34,080
you don't really have access to any

2357
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:36,400
underlying reality in a

2358
01:26:39,990 --> 01:26:38,960
in a uh in a direct sense it all has to

2359
01:26:43,669 --> 01:26:40,000
be mediated by

2360
01:26:44,550 --> 01:26:43,679
some sensations uh that that we all have

2361
01:26:47,590 --> 01:26:44,560
and those are

2362
01:26:50,070 --> 01:26:47,600
subject to all sorts of uh

2363
01:26:50,950 --> 01:26:50,080
all sorts of problems and issues that

2364
01:26:52,470 --> 01:26:50,960
that we

2365
01:26:54,390 --> 01:26:52,480
are not aware of in our daily life but

2366
01:26:56,629 --> 01:26:54,400
in all different kinds of trauma

2367
01:27:00,070 --> 01:26:56,639
diseases they become very obvious

2368
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:00,080
and so any of those arguments are

2369
01:27:05,110 --> 01:27:03,520
you know are cannot be totally refuted

2370
01:27:08,149 --> 01:27:05,120
because at the end of the day

2371
01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:08,159
anything we know is coming from our is

2372
01:27:11,910 --> 01:27:09,120
translated into

2373
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:11,920
nervous impulses through eyes and and

2374
01:27:15,830 --> 01:27:12,560
hearing

2375
01:27:17,590 --> 01:27:15,840
other senses um so

2376
01:27:19,110 --> 01:27:17,600
you know i like those arguments i enjoy

2377
01:27:22,950 --> 01:27:19,120
them we can discuss them

2378
01:27:24,709 --> 01:27:22,960
but if you take them

2379
01:27:26,229 --> 01:27:24,719
too seriously i mean it really ends the

2380
01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:26,239
conversation

2381
01:27:30,629 --> 01:27:28,239
well with bernardo there's nothing that

2382
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:30,639
he says that

2383
01:27:35,590 --> 01:27:33,600
violates any scientific theory in the

2384
01:27:37,189 --> 01:27:35,600
least because

2385
01:27:38,709 --> 01:27:37,199
you could just take the regularities

2386
01:27:39,669 --> 01:27:38,719
that we see in nature as the physical

2387
01:27:41,430 --> 01:27:39,679
law

2388
01:27:43,590 --> 01:27:41,440
and then you mentioned well simple but

2389
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:43,600
not any simpler okay why because at some

2390
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:44,560
point it won't work

2391
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:45,840
and then my question is well what

2392
01:27:51,430 --> 01:27:48,000
doesn't work about

2393
01:27:54,790 --> 01:27:51,440
idealism and

2394
01:27:56,870 --> 01:27:54,800
furthermore sorry what so you mentioned

2395
01:27:58,149 --> 01:27:56,880
simpler but not simple but not simpler

2396
01:27:59,430 --> 01:27:58,159
okay why not simpler

2397
01:28:01,990 --> 01:27:59,440
the reason is because at some point it

2398
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:02,000
won't work any longer the orbits are

2399
01:28:07,030 --> 01:28:05,280
are oblong or elliptical right okay

2400
01:28:08,709 --> 01:28:07,040
okay that means that there's a breakdown

2401
01:28:12,709 --> 01:28:08,719
of the theory okay from what we can

2402
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:12,719
tell what's wrong about idealism

2403
01:28:17,990 --> 01:28:15,760
no i'm saying what's wrong with idealism

2404
01:28:19,990 --> 01:28:18,000
and also can physicalism be refuted and

2405
01:28:21,590 --> 01:28:20,000
then if physicalism nor idealism can be

2406
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:21,600
refuted then the belief in one or the

2407
01:28:24,709 --> 01:28:22,400
other to me

2408
01:28:25,510 --> 01:28:24,719
seems like a faithful step which you've

2409
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:25,520
assumed

2410
01:28:29,510 --> 01:28:27,760
i think that's right we have had several

2411
01:28:30,470 --> 01:28:29,520
shows on closer to truth where we asked

2412
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:30,480
the question

2413
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:33,679
is the universe theologically ambiguous

2414
01:28:38,470 --> 01:28:36,719
and uh all the people we we speak to

2415
01:28:40,550 --> 01:28:38,480
don't like that question because to each

2416
01:28:41,510 --> 01:28:40,560
one of them the answer is it's not

2417
01:28:43,270 --> 01:28:41,520
ambiguous

2418
01:28:45,030 --> 01:28:43,280
and obviously the theists think it's not

2419
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:45,040
ambiguous because god does exist and the

2420
01:28:48,310 --> 01:28:46,480
atheists think it's it is

2421
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:48,320
it is not ambiguous but nobody liked the

2422
01:28:51,430 --> 01:28:50,080
idea that it was ambiguous i like the

2423
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:51,440
idea that it's ambiguous

2424
01:28:54,950 --> 01:28:52,960
nobody else i talked to really liked it

2425
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:54,960
i'm exaggerating but making the point

2426
01:28:58,470 --> 01:28:57,120
um what does it mean what do you say the

2427
01:28:59,189 --> 01:28:58,480
universe is ambiguous just for the

2428
01:29:01,110 --> 01:28:59,199
audience who

2429
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:01,120
is like what the heck is that possibly

2430
01:29:05,830 --> 01:29:03,280
theologically ambiguous meaning

2431
01:29:06,470 --> 01:29:05,840
that can data support both the existence

2432
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:06,480
of god

2433
01:29:15,430 --> 01:29:13,199
and the answer to me is yes and the

2434
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:15,440
to me this is not a a hard question

2435
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:17,199
because you know i have a lot of very

2436
01:29:20,470 --> 01:29:18,320
very very smart

2437
01:29:22,070 --> 01:29:20,480
friends and colleagues and many we've

2438
01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:22,080
interviewing closer to truth on both

2439
01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:23,520
sides of that question

2440
01:29:26,950 --> 01:29:25,840
and you know i'm not prepared to say one

2441
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:26,960
of those groups are

2442
01:29:30,310 --> 01:29:29,120
you know really missing some very

2443
01:29:33,189 --> 01:29:30,320
specific uh

2444
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:33,199
kind of data um and i expect when we get

2445
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:34,880
into global philosophy of religion and

2446
01:29:38,149 --> 01:29:35,840
reach out to

2447
01:29:40,229 --> 01:29:38,159
you know hindu and islamic traditions

2448
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:40,239
and greater depth than we ever had and

2449
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:40,639
uh

2450
01:29:44,229 --> 01:29:43,520
and buddhism that we'll find equally

2451
01:29:46,070 --> 01:29:44,239
strong

2452
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:46,080
views i know we will of course that's

2453
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:47,280
why we're doing it

2454
01:29:51,750 --> 01:29:51,360
so um i take the view that the data from

2455
01:29:59,030 --> 01:29:51,760
the

2456
01:29:59,910 --> 01:29:59,040
uh ways of apprehension both directly in

2457
01:30:02,790 --> 01:29:59,920
ourselves

2458
01:30:04,470 --> 01:30:02,800
and through our scientific process over

2459
01:30:06,470 --> 01:30:04,480
the last

2460
01:30:08,229 --> 01:30:06,480
four five centuries as science says has

2461
01:30:11,910 --> 01:30:08,239
developed has

2462
01:30:13,030 --> 01:30:11,920
um has amplified both sides of the

2463
01:30:16,390 --> 01:30:13,040
argument

2464
01:30:19,430 --> 01:30:16,400
um and so both both uh um

2465
01:30:21,430 --> 01:30:19,440
theists and atheists have been um

2466
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:21,440
have seen the results of science

2467
01:30:25,990 --> 01:30:22,719
corroborating

2468
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:26,000
their fundamental ideas about how

2469
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:29,040
how things work so people impose their

2470
01:30:33,189 --> 01:30:30,800
way of thinking on data

2471
01:30:33,990 --> 01:30:33,199
but the data itself has to have some

2472
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:34,000
ambiguity

2473
01:30:38,149 --> 01:30:36,400
about it or else that wouldn't be

2474
01:30:41,510 --> 01:30:38,159
possible to happen now

2475
01:30:43,189 --> 01:30:41,520
the the the the physicalists would say

2476
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:43,199
that's because the other side is

2477
01:30:48,870 --> 01:30:45,040
imposing their

2478
01:30:52,229 --> 01:30:48,880
artificial experiential selves onto

2479
01:30:54,629 --> 01:30:52,239
data and and and kind of skewing it

2480
01:30:55,350 --> 01:30:54,639
and and the theatres may say that as

2481
01:30:57,270 --> 01:30:55,360
well that

2482
01:30:59,110 --> 01:30:57,280
they are imposing their that they

2483
01:31:02,070 --> 01:30:59,120
believe in god that this

2484
01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:02,080
inner experience they've had is is both

2485
01:31:07,189 --> 01:31:02,960
meaningful

2486
01:31:11,430 --> 01:31:07,199
and uh um certain in their minds

2487
01:31:14,870 --> 01:31:11,440
uh but the raw data of the universe

2488
01:31:17,110 --> 01:31:14,880
can be interpreted in in in various ways

2489
01:31:19,030 --> 01:31:17,120
you know i've used uh this different

2490
01:31:22,470 --> 01:31:19,040
ways of interpretation

2491
01:31:25,030 --> 01:31:22,480
uh to um to illustrate

2492
01:31:25,910 --> 01:31:25,040
uh or illustrate that by taking a a

2493
01:31:29,510 --> 01:31:25,920
question

2494
01:31:31,669 --> 01:31:29,520
um are there alien intelligences that

2495
01:31:33,350 --> 01:31:31,679
are sentient in the way that

2496
01:31:34,709 --> 01:31:33,360
human beings are sentient maybe very

2497
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:34,719
different but are there

2498
01:31:39,189 --> 01:31:38,159
and i i pose i i pose it as a two-fold

2499
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:39,199
matrix

2500
01:31:44,950 --> 01:31:42,239
in terms of of uh are there aliens

2501
01:31:45,510 --> 01:31:44,960
such as sentient aliens or not so that's

2502
01:31:48,470 --> 01:31:45,520
a that's

2503
01:31:51,669 --> 01:31:48,480
that's one one axis the other axis is

2504
01:31:53,590 --> 01:31:51,679
are you a theist or are you an atheist

2505
01:31:54,709 --> 01:31:53,600
and i want to fill in all four of those

2506
01:31:57,910 --> 01:31:54,719
boxes

2507
01:32:01,430 --> 01:31:57,920
so if you're a uh a theist

2508
01:32:02,629 --> 01:32:01,440
and the universe is uh is teeming with

2509
01:32:05,990 --> 01:32:02,639
life

2510
01:32:09,270 --> 01:32:06,000
you say you know see god made a universe

2511
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:09,280
that had all this alien life and if

2512
01:32:12,229 --> 01:32:10,639
you're an atheist then you see the

2513
01:32:14,790 --> 01:32:12,239
universe teeming with life

2514
01:32:16,790 --> 01:32:14,800
you say see god didn't do anything

2515
01:32:17,669 --> 01:32:16,800
special about earth earth are just an

2516
01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:17,679
ordinary

2517
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:20,719
part and have gazillions of of of

2518
01:32:25,990 --> 01:32:23,040
sentient life in the universe so

2519
01:32:26,790 --> 01:32:26,000
so you know atheism is clearly right now

2520
01:32:30,310 --> 01:32:26,800
if there are

2521
01:32:33,830 --> 01:32:30,320
no other sentient life in the universe

2522
01:32:34,390 --> 01:32:33,840
the theists will say see we earthlings

2523
01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:34,400
and

2524
01:32:38,229 --> 01:32:36,400
human beings on earth are a special

2525
01:32:40,149 --> 01:32:38,239
creation of god

2526
01:32:41,430 --> 01:32:40,159
and therefore god exists the atheists

2527
01:32:45,189 --> 01:32:41,440
will say see

2528
01:32:46,070 --> 01:32:45,199
this the universe is wholly inhospitable

2529
01:32:48,790 --> 01:32:46,080
to life

2530
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:48,800
and it's only on this random planet that

2531
01:32:53,270 --> 01:32:50,719
one thing had occurred so that god

2532
01:32:53,990 --> 01:32:53,280
can't possibly exist so here you take a

2533
01:32:55,990 --> 01:32:54,000
very simple

2534
01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:56,000
case of whether they are sent in aliens

2535
01:32:59,750 --> 01:32:58,000
or not and interpret it

2536
01:33:01,830 --> 01:32:59,760
from both the theist and atheist point

2537
01:33:03,350 --> 01:33:01,840
of view and neither will change their

2538
01:33:04,550 --> 01:33:03,360
fundamental position no matter what the

2539
01:33:07,270 --> 01:33:04,560
answer is

2540
01:33:10,310 --> 01:33:07,280
now if that's the case if you give me

2541
01:33:13,430 --> 01:33:10,320
that then any of these other questions

2542
01:33:15,669 --> 01:33:13,440
will fall in the same category and as i

2543
01:33:17,510 --> 01:33:15,679
idealism versus physicalism versus

2544
01:33:21,990 --> 01:33:17,520
panzerkiss

2545
01:33:24,709 --> 01:33:22,000
and so we can do our best to really

2546
01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:24,719
understand the nature of each of the

2547
01:33:28,070 --> 01:33:25,600
argument

2548
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:28,080
to give us a richer understanding of the

2549
01:33:32,229 --> 01:33:29,040
questions

2550
01:33:36,470 --> 01:33:32,239
but um you know i have no uh

2551
01:33:38,629 --> 01:33:36,480
no uh not just no no belief no hope

2552
01:33:39,750 --> 01:33:38,639
that there'll be an ultimate answer

2553
01:33:42,709 --> 01:33:39,760
because i think that's

2554
01:33:43,110 --> 01:33:42,719
that is given the circumstances we have

2555
01:33:46,550 --> 01:33:43,120
that

2556
01:33:51,110 --> 01:33:46,560
it's probably in principle impossible

2557
01:33:52,709 --> 01:33:51,120
you and i think so much alike robert

2558
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:52,719
when it comes to sitting on on the fence

2559
01:33:56,149 --> 01:33:54,480
for many issues and citing

2560
01:33:57,510 --> 01:33:56,159
well how can you be so confident about

2561
01:33:59,990 --> 01:33:57,520
your answer given that there are people

2562
01:34:01,590 --> 01:34:00,000
who are extremely bright on both sides

2563
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:01,600
and sometimes when i see i'm pretty sure

2564
01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:03,280
you get the same feeling when you look

2565
01:34:07,590 --> 01:34:04,080
at the comments

2566
01:34:11,430 --> 01:34:07,600
most of the time they're extremely

2567
01:34:13,030 --> 01:34:11,440
positive and and sitting with ambiguity

2568
01:34:15,030 --> 01:34:13,040
but plenty of the time you'll see people

2569
01:34:15,910 --> 01:34:15,040
say these people are obviously incorrect

2570
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:15,920
because

2571
01:34:19,669 --> 01:34:18,000
god for sure exists or god for sure

2572
01:34:21,590 --> 01:34:19,679
doesn't exist i heard someone recently

2573
01:34:24,950 --> 01:34:21,600
say religion lowers your iq

2574
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:24,960
come on why do you think that

2575
01:34:29,669 --> 01:34:28,320
what makes you think that someone else

2576
01:34:30,870 --> 01:34:29,679
why do you think the other side says

2577
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:30,880
what they do do you think it's because

2578
01:34:33,270 --> 01:34:31,440
they're

2579
01:34:34,629 --> 01:34:33,280
unconsciously motivated by something

2580
01:34:36,870 --> 01:34:34,639
malicious well

2581
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:36,880
we all are to some degree but do you but

2582
01:34:40,310 --> 01:34:38,560
more than you and do you think that it's

2583
01:34:42,310 --> 01:34:40,320
because they have a paucity of the data

2584
01:34:44,629 --> 01:34:42,320
that you have access to

2585
01:34:46,390 --> 01:34:44,639
there's a great quote called there's a

2586
01:34:49,750 --> 01:34:46,400
great quote by kane i believe

2587
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:49,760
that that in in great controversy

2588
01:34:53,189 --> 01:34:51,920
not one side is mere folly or only the

2589
01:34:55,109 --> 01:34:53,199
shallowest of mine would think that in

2590
01:34:57,030 --> 01:34:55,119
great controversy one side is mere folly

2591
01:35:00,310 --> 01:34:57,040
i tend to subscribe to that and you seem

2592
01:35:02,390 --> 01:35:00,320
to be doing the same as well

2593
01:35:04,149 --> 01:35:02,400
that's my favorite my favorite uh

2594
01:35:05,350 --> 01:35:04,159
critique

2595
01:35:07,350 --> 01:35:05,360
yeah i know it's great that's great and

2596
01:35:09,830 --> 01:35:07,360
my favorite critique was in one show

2597
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:09,840
must have been something to do with god

2598
01:35:14,070 --> 01:35:11,040
within about

2599
01:35:16,390 --> 01:35:14,080
five or ten comments

2600
01:35:17,350 --> 01:35:16,400
on youtube one person said yeah it was

2601
01:35:20,149 --> 01:35:17,360
good uh

2602
01:35:21,830 --> 01:35:20,159
but cune is is is too much a promoter of

2603
01:35:24,149 --> 01:35:21,840
theism from my taste

2604
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:24,159
and then ten comments later it was yeah

2605
01:35:27,270 --> 01:35:24,880
it was a

2606
01:35:28,070 --> 01:35:27,280
show i learned a lot but you know he's

2607
01:35:30,070 --> 01:35:28,080
an atheist

2608
01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:30,080
and uh you know he doesn't believe in

2609
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:31,760
god and you know i'm not i'm not going

2610
01:35:34,950 --> 01:35:32,800
to really pay attention

2611
01:35:36,709 --> 01:35:34,960
so it was i mean normally it's a

2612
01:35:39,189 --> 01:35:36,719
different place but he was in the same

2613
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:39,199
context in the same show some people

2614
01:35:41,590 --> 01:35:40,800
accuse me of being an atheist and some

2615
01:35:44,310 --> 01:35:41,600
people accuse

2616
01:35:44,950 --> 01:35:44,320
being a theist in a in a negative manner

2617
01:35:47,430 --> 01:35:44,960
for both

2618
01:35:49,189 --> 01:35:47,440
a critical matter and i took that as a

2619
01:35:50,070 --> 01:35:49,199
compliment by the way you used a phrase

2620
01:35:51,350 --> 01:35:50,080
i don't agree with i

2621
01:35:53,109 --> 01:35:51,360
agree with everything you said except

2622
01:35:54,950 --> 01:35:53,119
one thing i don't think i'm sitting on

2623
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:54,960
the fence

2624
01:35:58,470 --> 01:35:56,880
and i don't think you are either it's

2625
01:36:02,310 --> 01:35:58,480
not a sitting on the fence

2626
01:36:04,870 --> 01:36:02,320
it's a very sharp-eyed uh tough-minded

2627
01:36:06,629 --> 01:36:04,880
approach to the to to to to questions

2628
01:36:08,070 --> 01:36:06,639
now i could be wrong and when i'm wrong

2629
01:36:08,870 --> 01:36:08,080
i'd love to be wrong because then i

2630
01:36:12,229 --> 01:36:08,880
learn

2631
01:36:12,550 --> 01:36:12,239
uh but i i um i think of what i want to

2632
01:36:14,470 --> 01:36:12,560
do

2633
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:14,480
is being very tough-minded very very

2634
01:36:19,109 --> 01:36:15,840
critical thinking

2635
01:36:20,229 --> 01:36:19,119
and and being able to and and being

2636
01:36:22,229 --> 01:36:20,239
open-minded

2637
01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:22,239
in a very real sense at the same time

2638
01:36:27,189 --> 01:36:24,000
and being hopeful i always i

2639
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:27,199
often say that you know i i fear my hope

2640
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:30,320
is swamping my reason um and so i'm

2641
01:36:33,669 --> 01:36:32,560
trying to be careful about that when i

2642
01:36:36,229 --> 01:36:33,679
when i think

2643
01:36:37,990 --> 01:36:36,239
but it's not sitting on the fence uh it

2644
01:36:40,310 --> 01:36:38,000
you know i take these questions very

2645
01:36:41,510 --> 01:36:40,320
seriously i have my whole life the great

2646
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:41,520
opportunity to

2647
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:43,280
discuss with many people i'm joined

2648
01:36:47,430 --> 01:36:45,119
discussing with you today kurt

2649
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:47,440
um and these are questions which you

2650
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:48,880
know all human beings face

2651
01:36:52,870 --> 01:36:51,280
at the same level and i think that's the

2652
01:36:53,590 --> 01:36:52,880
important thing in today's world too

2653
01:36:55,750 --> 01:36:53,600
that we

2654
01:36:57,510 --> 01:36:55,760
we all share these these ways of

2655
01:37:00,470 --> 01:36:57,520
thinking um

2656
01:37:01,350 --> 01:37:00,480
which which uh you know can go a long

2657
01:37:03,990 --> 01:37:01,360
way towards

2658
01:37:05,189 --> 01:37:04,000
bridging uh ostensible gaps between

2659
01:37:07,030 --> 01:37:05,199
people

2660
01:37:08,629 --> 01:37:07,040
i'm going to match your agreement slash

2661
01:37:09,669 --> 01:37:08,639
disagreement with another disagreement

2662
01:37:11,669 --> 01:37:09,679
slash agreement

2663
01:37:13,109 --> 01:37:11,679
so i would say yes i agree i'm not

2664
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:13,119
sitting on the fence in the traditional

2665
01:37:15,750 --> 01:37:13,920
sense of

2666
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:15,760
being on it well i am in the sense that

2667
01:37:20,229 --> 01:37:17,280
i'm unable to make up my mind

2668
01:37:21,109 --> 01:37:20,239
because as soon as i posit one position

2669
01:37:22,709 --> 01:37:21,119
i can almost

2670
01:37:25,510 --> 01:37:22,719
immediately see a counter to that

2671
01:37:27,030 --> 01:37:25,520
position and it's difficult for

2672
01:37:29,109 --> 01:37:27,040
in my mind it's just even when i'm

2673
01:37:30,629 --> 01:37:29,119
writing i just see flaws flaws flaws

2674
01:37:32,310 --> 01:37:30,639
flaws with almost each side

2675
01:37:34,070 --> 01:37:32,320
so that's what i mean when i say on the

2676
01:37:35,750 --> 01:37:34,080
fence and then as for

2677
01:37:38,390 --> 01:37:35,760
as for you saying that you like to be

2678
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:38,400
wrong i don't think so robert

2679
01:37:42,229 --> 01:37:40,320
and i'll tell you why you don't want to

2680
01:37:46,629 --> 01:37:42,239
be wrong about your wife not loving you

2681
01:37:48,070 --> 01:37:46,639
or wrong about reason leading you

2682
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:48,080
reason not leading you to truth because

2683
01:37:52,310 --> 01:37:50,560
your whole show is based upon reason and

2684
01:37:54,070 --> 01:37:52,320
argumentation leading to some place

2685
01:37:55,109 --> 01:37:54,080
that's closer to truth so i want to say

2686
01:37:57,189 --> 01:37:55,119
globally

2687
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:57,199
you care you're excited to be wrong

2688
01:38:01,830 --> 01:37:58,400
unless

2689
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:01,840
please tell me if i'm wrong about that

2690
01:38:07,430 --> 01:38:03,360
on specific

2691
01:38:10,310 --> 01:38:07,440
topics uh if i if i think a certain way

2692
01:38:12,310 --> 01:38:10,320
and then i find out that's not correct

2693
01:38:13,669 --> 01:38:12,320
in some sense uh you know that to me is

2694
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:13,679
a learning experience i

2695
01:38:19,990 --> 01:38:16,800
i i like that i mean i i've had uh

2696
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:20,000
from uh um comments of you know

2697
01:38:23,109 --> 01:38:22,239
a greater appreciation i've thought

2698
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:23,119
harder

2699
01:38:27,270 --> 01:38:25,360
about experiential even though we still

2700
01:38:30,310 --> 01:38:27,280
don't deal with that on closer to truth

2701
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:30,320
because i have no way of adjudicating um

2702
01:38:33,990 --> 01:38:32,159
you know which you know the wheat from

2703
01:38:35,990 --> 01:38:34,000
the chaff and the huge amount

2704
01:38:37,109 --> 01:38:36,000
in that area that's just not what we can

2705
01:38:39,189 --> 01:38:37,119
do but i

2706
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:39,199
do appreciate that that is a

2707
01:38:44,470 --> 01:38:40,560
consideration

2708
01:38:47,109 --> 01:38:44,480
that needs to be um admitted and

2709
01:38:48,550 --> 01:38:47,119
we we we do that on closer to truth but

2710
01:38:51,430 --> 01:38:48,560
but we don't then

2711
01:38:51,910 --> 01:38:51,440
explore that further by testing all

2712
01:38:59,109 --> 01:38:51,920
different

2713
01:38:59,669 --> 01:38:59,119
claims uh that various teachers or gurus

2714
01:39:04,229 --> 01:38:59,679
or

2715
01:39:08,550 --> 01:39:04,239
not what we would do

2716
01:39:09,590 --> 01:39:08,560
um so but my thinking on that for

2717
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:09,600
example has been

2718
01:39:15,750 --> 01:39:12,719
expanded a little bit um and

2719
01:39:17,109 --> 01:39:15,760
uh we've talked before about logic and

2720
01:39:18,870 --> 01:39:17,119
i've

2721
01:39:21,430 --> 01:39:18,880
would have thought that the classical

2722
01:39:22,870 --> 01:39:21,440
logic is is is the only way the laws

2723
01:39:25,990 --> 01:39:22,880
have excluded middle and

2724
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:26,000
all of that um but the

2725
01:39:32,149 --> 01:39:29,760
there because a different logical system

2726
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:32,159
particularly you know the eastern uh

2727
01:39:36,229 --> 01:39:34,159
tetralem i think that's what it's called

2728
01:39:38,470 --> 01:39:36,239
the four the four kinds of logic it

2729
01:39:41,669 --> 01:39:38,480
gives you a deeper insight

2730
01:39:44,709 --> 01:39:41,679
into into ways of thinking about deep

2731
01:39:47,430 --> 01:39:44,719
questions so um that's

2732
01:39:48,149 --> 01:39:47,440
that's a learning experience um now how

2733
01:39:51,669 --> 01:39:48,159
that

2734
01:39:53,990 --> 01:39:51,679
affects anyone needs to consider

2735
01:39:56,070 --> 01:39:54,000
when when i say i like being wrong it's

2736
01:39:57,430 --> 01:39:56,080
i i'm not saying that in a global sense

2737
01:40:00,709 --> 01:39:57,440
that you know i'm i'm

2738
01:40:02,950 --> 01:40:00,719
uh i i miss my calling and i

2739
01:40:04,390 --> 01:40:02,960
i i should have believed in god or

2740
01:40:06,149 --> 01:40:04,400
should never have dealt with questions

2741
01:40:07,430 --> 01:40:06,159
about god no i don't i don't think i'm

2742
01:40:10,709 --> 01:40:07,440
wrong about that

2743
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,719
uh but whenever there's something that

2744
01:40:14,229 --> 01:40:12,239
uh you know that i learned that was

2745
01:40:16,950 --> 01:40:14,239
different i mean i look upon that as

2746
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:16,960
as progress well robert the reason i

2747
01:40:20,870 --> 01:40:17,920
bring that up

2748
01:40:22,070 --> 01:40:20,880
is because i'm sure you see this too i'm

2749
01:40:23,750 --> 01:40:22,080
constantly

2750
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:23,760
almost unconsciously assessing people of

2751
01:40:27,590 --> 01:40:25,280
their unconscious motivations

2752
01:40:28,870 --> 01:40:27,600
and when i hear people say i'm sure you

2753
01:40:30,550 --> 01:40:28,880
see this too when they say well i love

2754
01:40:31,910 --> 01:40:30,560
to be wrong richard dawkins has a story

2755
01:40:33,750 --> 01:40:31,920
about this

2756
01:40:34,950 --> 01:40:33,760
i want i wonder how much of that is

2757
01:40:36,629 --> 01:40:34,960
marketing or

2758
01:40:38,470 --> 01:40:36,639
trying to show one's rational

2759
01:40:41,109 --> 01:40:38,480
intellectual

2760
01:40:41,510 --> 01:40:41,119
proclivity by saying well look i'm not

2761
01:40:42,950 --> 01:40:41,520
guided

2762
01:40:44,550 --> 01:40:42,960
i'm not the catholic church where i say

2763
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:44,560
kneel down and obey and listen to

2764
01:40:47,350 --> 01:40:45,360
whatever

2765
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:47,360
i actually follow the data wherever it

2766
01:40:50,470 --> 01:40:49,280
may lead me well first of all

2767
01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:50,480
i don't buy that i don't think that's

2768
01:40:53,830 --> 01:40:52,480
necessarily true if the data led you to

2769
01:40:57,350 --> 01:40:53,840
kill yourself or led you to kill

2770
01:40:58,629 --> 01:40:57,360
destroy the world would you do so

2771
01:40:59,990 --> 01:40:58,639
and then if it does well maybe you

2772
01:41:01,350 --> 01:41:00,000
should question your own reasoning and

2773
01:41:02,790 --> 01:41:01,360
also when people say they don't like

2774
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:02,800
faith or they don't have faith or they

2775
01:41:06,870 --> 01:41:03,600
don't have beliefs

2776
01:41:07,270 --> 01:41:06,880
well i see that also as pounding their

2777
01:41:08,790 --> 01:41:07,280
chest

2778
01:41:10,790 --> 01:41:08,800
or at least pounding their brain in an

2779
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:10,800
analogous chest thumping manner

2780
01:41:16,629 --> 01:41:14,400
by saying look how

2781
01:41:18,229 --> 01:41:16,639
scientifically rational intellectual i

2782
01:41:19,030 --> 01:41:18,239
am and something i think intellectuals

2783
01:41:20,950 --> 01:41:19,040
dislike more

2784
01:41:22,550 --> 01:41:20,960
than appearing to then being irrational

2785
01:41:24,149 --> 01:41:22,560
is appearing to be irrational

2786
01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:24,159
i'm questioning when people say for

2787
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:25,600
example you mentioned you don't have

2788
01:41:28,790 --> 01:41:26,239
faith

2789
01:41:30,229 --> 01:41:28,800
well do you drive your car and then you

2790
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:30,239
may say yes i drive my car

2791
01:41:33,109 --> 01:41:31,600
okay do you have faith you're not going

2792
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:33,119
to get into an accident well my faith is

2793
01:41:37,430 --> 01:41:34,159
based on evidence

2794
01:41:39,270 --> 01:41:37,440
okay but but okay

2795
01:41:40,470 --> 01:41:39,280
i know i'm speaking for you here sorry

2796
01:41:41,910 --> 01:41:40,480
let me ask you

2797
01:41:43,910 --> 01:41:41,920
you say that you don't have faith do you

2798
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:43,920
drive a car

2799
01:41:48,550 --> 01:41:46,239
no but you're interpreting faith in a

2800
01:41:51,910 --> 01:41:48,560
much broader term what i'm saying faith

2801
01:41:55,270 --> 01:41:51,920
is is faith in in in willing to

2802
01:41:57,350 --> 01:41:55,280
give um uh to allow

2803
01:41:59,109 --> 01:41:57,360
kind of an inner feeling of wanting

2804
01:42:02,709 --> 01:41:59,119
there to be a god

2805
01:42:05,590 --> 01:42:02,719
uh and allow that to um become

2806
01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:05,600
your dominant belief system i you know

2807
01:42:07,669 --> 01:42:07,280
for better works i would like there to

2808
01:42:10,310 --> 01:42:07,679
be

2809
01:42:11,189 --> 01:42:10,320
a god in the traditional sense that

2810
01:42:13,590 --> 01:42:11,199
would

2811
01:42:15,910 --> 01:42:13,600
i think be pretty pretty cool about the

2812
01:42:17,590 --> 01:42:15,920
way the world works and

2813
01:42:19,669 --> 01:42:17,600
and what the potential of human beings

2814
01:42:21,350 --> 01:42:19,679
are in terms of life after death or

2815
01:42:25,189 --> 01:42:21,360
whatever

2816
01:42:26,870 --> 01:42:25,199
but i i'm not i don't have the faith to

2817
01:42:29,510 --> 01:42:26,880
make that leap between

2818
01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:29,520
that hope and the belief so i don't have

2819
01:42:32,629 --> 01:42:30,800
the belief

2820
01:42:34,070 --> 01:42:32,639
and i would like to because i don't have

2821
01:42:35,510 --> 01:42:34,080
the faith to do that

2822
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:35,520
uh you're using the word faith in my

2823
01:42:39,510 --> 01:42:37,600
broader term and

2824
01:42:40,950 --> 01:42:39,520
that's not the way i when i say i don't

2825
01:42:43,189 --> 01:42:40,960
have faith i mean

2826
01:42:44,709 --> 01:42:43,199
faith in that very specific thing to

2827
01:42:48,310 --> 01:42:44,719
make the leap from what i

2828
01:42:50,390 --> 01:42:48,320
know about the the the world and

2829
01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:50,400
philosophical analysis and everything to

2830
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:52,320
an absolute belief

2831
01:42:55,590 --> 01:42:55,040
in in god i think i'm using that term in

2832
01:42:58,870 --> 01:42:55,600
a very

2833
01:43:01,430 --> 01:42:58,880
limited sense to that we

2834
01:43:03,189 --> 01:43:01,440
all have predispositions in our belief

2835
01:43:05,430 --> 01:43:03,199
system everybody has belief

2836
01:43:06,310 --> 01:43:05,440
a belief system that's founded on on

2837
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:06,320
principles

2838
01:43:10,790 --> 01:43:08,000
uh some of which are obvious to us and

2839
01:43:13,750 --> 01:43:10,800
many of which are not uh

2840
01:43:14,149 --> 01:43:13,760
you know scientists who say that you

2841
01:43:17,189 --> 01:43:14,159
know

2842
01:43:19,990 --> 01:43:17,199
philosophy is dead or there is no

2843
01:43:20,870 --> 01:43:20,000
room for philosophy it's distorting you

2844
01:43:23,189 --> 01:43:20,880
know

2845
01:43:25,590 --> 01:43:23,199
they are practicing philosophy they are

2846
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:25,600
giving a philosophy when they say that

2847
01:43:29,270 --> 01:43:27,119
when i say philosophy is dead there's no

2848
01:43:32,790 --> 01:43:29,280
that is a philosophy that is a

2849
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:32,800
a philosophy you may think it's amateur

2850
01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:34,880
philosophy or bad philosophy but it is a

2851
01:43:38,149 --> 01:43:36,560
philosophy

2852
01:43:39,910 --> 01:43:38,159
and so you know when i use the word

2853
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:39,920
faith i'd use it in in that

2854
01:43:43,270 --> 01:43:41,600
context but if we want to broaden the

2855
01:43:45,990 --> 01:43:43,280
concept to

2856
01:43:47,669 --> 01:43:46,000
how we deal with various ways of dealing

2857
01:43:50,709 --> 01:43:47,679
with the world or with truth

2858
01:43:52,310 --> 01:43:50,719
you know what we're i i would i would i

2859
01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:52,320
would offer a different way of thinking

2860
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:53,760
about it rather than using the term

2861
01:43:59,510 --> 01:43:56,159
faith i'd use the term belief system

2862
01:44:01,830 --> 01:43:59,520
so we all have a belief system

2863
01:44:03,430 --> 01:44:01,840
which uh which operates in the

2864
01:44:05,109 --> 01:44:03,440
background for whatever we're doing if

2865
01:44:06,470 --> 01:44:05,119
we're driving a car we have a belief

2866
01:44:08,229 --> 01:44:06,480
system about that

2867
01:44:09,830 --> 01:44:08,239
if we're thinking about the nature of

2868
01:44:12,229 --> 01:44:09,840
consciousness or god or

2869
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:12,239
life after death we have a belief system

2870
01:44:16,550 --> 01:44:12,960
that we bring

2871
01:44:19,669 --> 01:44:16,560
to that discussion so i think

2872
01:44:20,229 --> 01:44:19,679
human belief systems is a wonderful

2873
01:44:22,790 --> 01:44:20,239
topic

2874
01:44:23,830 --> 01:44:22,800
for deep explanation and that is a

2875
01:44:26,950 --> 01:44:23,840
closer-to-truth

2876
01:44:29,109 --> 01:44:26,960
theme we we deal with belief systems and

2877
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:29,119
how belief systems come about

2878
01:44:32,550 --> 01:44:31,760
uh both in all respects although we have

2879
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:32,560
maybe a

2880
01:44:36,629 --> 01:44:35,040
a skewed towards religious belief

2881
01:44:38,550 --> 01:44:36,639
systems and how they come about

2882
01:44:41,030 --> 01:44:38,560
but these are fascinating conversations

2883
01:44:43,350 --> 01:44:41,040
so we had one television show you know

2884
01:44:44,550 --> 01:44:43,360
religion without god you know what is

2885
01:44:45,430 --> 01:44:44,560
what does that mean how does that

2886
01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:45,440
develop

2887
01:44:53,030 --> 01:44:48,880
uh that's interesting yeah so

2888
01:44:55,990 --> 01:44:53,040
so belief systems is is an exciting

2889
01:44:57,189 --> 01:44:56,000
way of thinking about it and i would put

2890
01:45:00,070 --> 01:44:57,199
the way i would define

2891
01:45:02,790 --> 01:45:00,080
faith as a small subset of the broader

2892
01:45:05,030 --> 01:45:02,800
topic of belief systems

2893
01:45:06,790 --> 01:45:05,040
okay help me out robert so there are

2894
01:45:09,910 --> 01:45:06,800
belief systems about

2895
01:45:12,229 --> 01:45:09,920
operating a computer or a vehicle and

2896
01:45:14,310 --> 01:45:12,239
and then there are belief systems about

2897
01:45:15,109 --> 01:45:14,320
faith in god and so on now what's the

2898
01:45:19,030 --> 01:45:15,119
difference

2899
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:19,040
between one why is it okay well

2900
01:45:22,550 --> 01:45:20,960
why is it rational to have a belief

2901
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:22,560
system about driving a car

2902
01:45:26,390 --> 01:45:23,840
and being confident about one's

2903
01:45:29,990 --> 01:45:26,400
abilities to drive a car versus

2904
01:45:33,910 --> 01:45:30,000
irrational to have faith in uh

2905
01:45:37,109 --> 01:45:33,920
a deity let's say or multiple deities

2906
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:37,119
or whatever other religions espouse

2907
01:45:41,750 --> 01:45:38,320
i'm trying to find out what's the

2908
01:45:45,590 --> 01:45:44,470
well i think it in the ultimate sense

2909
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:45,600
there is no difference

2910
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:48,960
in terms of belief systems being

2911
01:45:56,790 --> 01:45:53,440
a mechanism by which human mentality

2912
01:45:58,870 --> 01:45:56,800
uh deals with

2913
01:46:00,629 --> 01:45:58,880
sentience and it's in its world so we

2914
01:46:03,030 --> 01:46:00,639
deal with our worlds

2915
01:46:04,390 --> 01:46:03,040
through our belief systems belief

2916
01:46:08,390 --> 01:46:04,400
systems are

2917
01:46:09,590 --> 01:46:08,400
uh inculcated by uh by your own personal

2918
01:46:12,790 --> 01:46:09,600
experience

2919
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:12,800
and they're they're they're inculcated

2920
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:13,119
by

2921
01:46:17,430 --> 01:46:14,880
the culture from which we live i mean

2922
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:17,440
one argument against religion and that's

2923
01:46:21,830 --> 01:46:18,560
a strong one

2924
01:46:24,229 --> 01:46:21,840
is that if you go to

2925
01:46:26,390 --> 01:46:24,239
the western world you know christianity

2926
01:46:29,510 --> 01:46:26,400
is 90 percent or whatever and you go to

2927
01:46:30,709 --> 01:46:29,520
india and hinduism is whatever the

2928
01:46:32,870 --> 01:46:30,719
president is 70

2929
01:46:34,070 --> 01:46:32,880
and islam is 30 whatev whatever the

2930
01:46:37,189 --> 01:46:34,080
numbers are

2931
01:46:40,470 --> 01:46:37,199
um and you know did all these people

2932
01:46:42,550 --> 01:46:40,480
make those decisions on

2933
01:46:43,510 --> 01:46:42,560
in a rational sense of course that's

2934
01:46:46,310 --> 01:46:43,520
impossible

2935
01:46:47,510 --> 01:46:46,320
uh if if that would occur you'd have a

2936
01:46:50,390 --> 01:46:47,520
the entire world

2937
01:46:50,950 --> 01:46:50,400
sort of in every country having a

2938
01:46:53,109 --> 01:46:50,960
similar

2939
01:46:54,310 --> 01:46:53,119
kind of percentage of people making

2940
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:54,320
their decisions so

2941
01:47:00,629 --> 01:46:57,360
we have a tremendous amount of uh

2942
01:47:02,950 --> 01:47:00,639
of our our whole lives are built upon

2943
01:47:05,109 --> 01:47:02,960
belief systems i had an experience that

2944
01:47:06,550 --> 01:47:05,119
it may sound trivial but it was really

2945
01:47:08,390 --> 01:47:06,560
very meaningful to me my first

2946
01:47:10,550 --> 01:47:08,400
granddaughter when she was

2947
01:47:12,149 --> 01:47:10,560
when she was learning to walk she had a

2948
01:47:14,229 --> 01:47:12,159
toy that was a walker

2949
01:47:15,910 --> 01:47:14,239
and she just was starting to walk and

2950
01:47:17,430 --> 01:47:15,920
and she was wanted to get to the other

2951
01:47:18,550 --> 01:47:17,440
side of the room and she kept pushing

2952
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:18,560
into a

2953
01:47:22,229 --> 01:47:20,480
hammock or a chair and she couldn't

2954
01:47:24,229 --> 01:47:22,239
because she couldn't get

2955
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:24,239
through the chair she kept pushing she

2956
01:47:26,790 --> 01:47:25,440
wanted to get to the other side she

2957
01:47:29,669 --> 01:47:26,800
couldn't get through the chair

2958
01:47:30,070 --> 01:47:29,679
okay and then she slipped and she slid

2959
01:47:33,830 --> 01:47:30,080
and

2960
01:47:35,189 --> 01:47:33,840
trial learning the next time she came

2961
01:47:36,229 --> 01:47:35,199
there she knew she just went around the

2962
01:47:39,830 --> 01:47:36,239
chair

2963
01:47:40,950 --> 01:47:39,840
and so when she first saw that

2964
01:47:42,950 --> 01:47:40,960
she want to get to the other side of the

2965
01:47:44,629 --> 01:47:42,960
room you just go straight

2966
01:47:46,390 --> 01:47:44,639
because that's the belief system when

2967
01:47:47,750 --> 01:47:46,400
you go straight you get there quicker

2968
01:47:50,229 --> 01:47:47,760
it doesn't matter if there's a chair in

2969
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:50,239
the way you just go and but she couldn't

2970
01:47:53,910 --> 01:47:53,199
and then then the next thing she learned

2971
01:47:56,229 --> 01:47:53,920
was that

2972
01:47:57,189 --> 01:47:56,239
if there are things in the way if you go

2973
01:47:58,950 --> 01:47:57,199
around them

2974
01:48:00,629 --> 01:47:58,960
even though it's longer it's longer to

2975
01:48:02,950 --> 01:48:00,639
go around and to go through

2976
01:48:03,669 --> 01:48:02,960
but as you do that you can get you it

2977
01:48:06,390 --> 01:48:03,679
works

2978
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:06,400
so that that was an example that i saw

2979
01:48:11,590 --> 01:48:08,480
literally

2980
01:48:13,830 --> 01:48:11,600
right there where a belief system

2981
01:48:15,350 --> 01:48:13,840
was being developed it was a belief

2982
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:15,360
system with how to deal

2983
01:48:18,550 --> 01:48:17,440
with things in the world now that's very

2984
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:18,560
simplistic

2985
01:48:22,310 --> 01:48:21,360
but i think if that analogy and that and

2986
01:48:25,189 --> 01:48:22,320
that mechanism

2987
01:48:25,669 --> 01:48:25,199
applies to lots of you know gets much

2988
01:48:28,390 --> 01:48:25,679
more

2989
01:48:30,470 --> 01:48:28,400
complicated and and and and filters

2990
01:48:33,189 --> 01:48:30,480
everything that we have

2991
01:48:36,149 --> 01:48:33,199
and so one challenge for us when we're

2992
01:48:38,629 --> 01:48:36,159
dealing with these very big questions

2993
01:48:40,149 --> 01:48:38,639
of existence of god or nature of

2994
01:48:41,189 --> 01:48:40,159
consciousness life after death or

2995
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:41,199
whatever

2996
01:48:45,990 --> 01:48:44,880
is to is to challenge our own belief

2997
01:48:49,030 --> 01:48:46,000
systems and to

2998
01:48:51,109 --> 01:48:49,040
see what are the assumptions that our

2999
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:51,119
belief systems are making

3000
01:48:57,510 --> 01:48:54,320
and uh in in doing this i think we see

3001
01:48:59,990 --> 01:48:57,520
broader opportunities and and

3002
01:49:01,430 --> 01:49:00,000
broader ways of thinking and how other

3003
01:49:01,990 --> 01:49:01,440
smart people think and that's what we

3004
01:49:06,390 --> 01:49:02,000
try to do

3005
01:49:09,430 --> 01:49:06,400
on on closer to truth we try to

3006
01:49:11,030 --> 01:49:09,440
understand how presuppositions we don't

3007
01:49:13,430 --> 01:49:11,040
always call it belief systems but how

3008
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:13,440
presuppositions and ways of thinking

3009
01:49:16,870 --> 01:49:15,360
lead to certain kinds of conclusions and

3010
01:49:18,470 --> 01:49:16,880
what the how different people make

3011
01:49:21,669 --> 01:49:18,480
different arguments to get there

3012
01:49:25,910 --> 01:49:21,679
but they're all based upon these uh uh

3013
01:49:28,229 --> 01:49:25,920
perhaps um unconscious uh kinds of

3014
01:49:29,270 --> 01:49:28,239
modules that are parts of our belief

3015
01:49:30,629 --> 01:49:29,280
system i think

3016
01:49:32,629 --> 01:49:30,639
and that's a good way to think about it

3017
01:49:33,350 --> 01:49:32,639
our belief system have these modules and

3018
01:49:35,430 --> 01:49:33,360
the

3019
01:49:36,470 --> 01:49:35,440
marvin minsky talked about a society of

3020
01:49:39,669 --> 01:49:36,480
minds and

3021
01:49:41,030 --> 01:49:39,679
in his classic book um and so we have

3022
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:41,040
these modules

3023
01:49:45,350 --> 01:49:43,360
mental modules that we've had many of

3024
01:49:47,430 --> 01:49:45,360
which are unconscious

3025
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:47,440
and to deal with these big questions i

3026
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:50,000
like to uncover what these

3027
01:49:54,070 --> 01:49:52,239
what these mental modules are which are

3028
01:49:56,229 --> 01:49:54,080
our fundamental assumptions

3029
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:56,239
and then allow people to come to their

3030
01:50:00,550 --> 01:49:57,840
conclusions but to see the

3031
01:50:01,270 --> 01:50:00,560
logical process uh that they go through

3032
01:50:05,750 --> 01:50:01,280
this

3033
01:50:06,709 --> 01:50:05,760
granddaughter

3034
01:50:09,189 --> 01:50:06,719
is it your friend okay your

3035
01:50:11,109 --> 01:50:09,199
granddaughter going from point a to b

3036
01:50:12,709 --> 01:50:11,119
see to me this means that there's a

3037
01:50:14,950 --> 01:50:12,719
pragmatic definition of truth

3038
01:50:16,709 --> 01:50:14,960
embedded within what you said because

3039
01:50:18,070 --> 01:50:16,719
the first model is let's go to a and b

3040
01:50:19,589 --> 01:50:18,080
in a b line

3041
01:50:21,030 --> 01:50:19,599
and then the second and that fails and

3042
01:50:22,550 --> 01:50:21,040
then the second is let's go around it

3043
01:50:23,990 --> 01:50:22,560
and then you validate the model based on

3044
01:50:25,750 --> 01:50:24,000
the goal based on if it gets you the

3045
01:50:26,310 --> 01:50:25,760
goal which is a pragmatic theory of

3046
01:50:29,189 --> 01:50:26,320
truth

3047
01:50:31,350 --> 01:50:29,199
and before you were and pragmatic

3048
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:31,360
theories of truth are somewhat relative

3049
01:50:35,669 --> 01:50:33,440
so to me that goes against what you

3050
01:50:38,550 --> 01:50:35,679
earlier said what you said earlier about

3051
01:50:38,950 --> 01:50:38,560
there being an absolute yes or no yeah

3052
01:50:43,990 --> 01:50:38,960
but

3053
01:50:45,910 --> 01:50:44,000
we're using truth just like we use faith

3054
01:50:48,229 --> 01:50:45,920
in different ways truth is

3055
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:48,239
an english word five letters and as

3056
01:50:52,310 --> 01:50:50,159
meaning when you bring it but uh they're

3057
01:50:54,310 --> 01:50:52,320
very very different kinds of

3058
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:54,320
of truth certainly there are pragmatic

3059
01:50:58,470 --> 01:50:55,360
truths and and

3060
01:50:59,189 --> 01:50:58,480
and they they can be very volatile i

3061
01:51:01,030 --> 01:50:59,199
mean

3062
01:51:02,790 --> 01:51:01,040
you know morality is it absolute or

3063
01:51:05,189 --> 01:51:02,800
relative and there's a you know

3064
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:05,199
huge literature and a constant battle

3065
01:51:10,149 --> 01:51:06,400
about about

3066
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:10,159
those kinds of things when i'm using

3067
01:51:13,990 --> 01:51:12,000
the word truth and as we use it on

3068
01:51:16,550 --> 01:51:14,000
closer to truth the scope

3069
01:51:18,790 --> 01:51:16,560
of what we're talking about as truth is

3070
01:51:21,669 --> 01:51:18,800
extremely limited if you look at

3071
01:51:23,430 --> 01:51:21,679
all the questions of of human life and

3072
01:51:25,910 --> 01:51:23,440
existence and sentience

3073
01:51:27,830 --> 01:51:25,920
the kinds of truth that we're focusing

3074
01:51:30,790 --> 01:51:27,840
on on closer to truth

3075
01:51:32,870 --> 01:51:30,800
are a miniscule subset of all the kinds

3076
01:51:35,189 --> 01:51:32,880
of truths that there could be

3077
01:51:37,350 --> 01:51:35,199
and so when i'm using the term truth

3078
01:51:39,109 --> 01:51:37,360
that there is an absolute truth answer

3079
01:51:39,990 --> 01:51:39,119
to the kinds of questions we ask even

3080
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:40,000
though we'll never get

3081
01:51:44,229 --> 01:51:42,000
to it enough i'm not here to tell you

3082
01:51:47,430 --> 01:51:44,239
what those answers are that's for sure

3083
01:51:50,390 --> 01:51:47,440
um that that that's a different

3084
01:51:51,270 --> 01:51:50,400
category so i will defend the notion

3085
01:51:53,669 --> 01:51:51,280
that there is an

3086
01:51:55,109 --> 01:51:53,679
absolute truth about these big questions

3087
01:51:57,270 --> 01:51:55,119
even though we won't

3088
01:51:58,470 --> 01:51:57,280
know that we wouldn't even know what it

3089
01:52:02,790 --> 01:51:58,480
means

3090
01:52:04,550 --> 01:52:02,800
that that that we would know that i mean

3091
01:52:06,310 --> 01:52:04,560
we don't we wouldn't even know what a

3092
01:52:12,790 --> 01:52:06,320
verification

3093
01:52:15,270 --> 01:52:12,800
um for for example um one of our

3094
01:52:17,270 --> 01:52:15,280
our uh contributors uh contributed less

3095
01:52:18,229 --> 01:52:17,280
well-known but very sophisticated sadly

3096
01:52:21,430 --> 01:52:18,239
he died

3097
01:52:24,950 --> 01:52:21,440
bead rundle uh from oxford who's a

3098
01:52:25,750 --> 01:52:24,960
very strong atheist uh he said this he

3099
01:52:29,510 --> 01:52:25,760
said

3100
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:29,520
if i were trying to be convinced to be a

3101
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:31,119
theist which he was not

3102
01:52:38,070 --> 01:52:34,480
um and i went to a you know a shrine or

3103
01:52:42,430 --> 01:52:38,080
or holy waters and i saw

3104
01:52:45,109 --> 01:52:42,440
a person who believed in god suddenly

3105
01:52:47,189 --> 01:52:45,119
materialized two limbs that they didn't

3106
01:52:48,629 --> 01:52:47,199
have they had no arms and suddenly they

3107
01:52:52,310 --> 01:52:48,639
had arms

3108
01:52:52,950 --> 01:52:52,320
uh and that person said therefore god

3109
01:52:55,030 --> 01:52:52,960
exists

3110
01:52:56,310 --> 01:52:55,040
i mean suddenly and i saw that myself

3111
01:52:59,189 --> 01:52:56,320
and i was sure it happened

3112
01:52:59,990 --> 01:52:59,199
he said i would think it more likely

3113
01:53:03,589 --> 01:53:00,000
that it was an

3114
01:53:06,950 --> 01:53:03,599
alien ship on the dark side of the moon

3115
01:53:07,910 --> 01:53:06,960
beaming special healing rays to that

3116
01:53:11,189 --> 01:53:07,920
lady

3117
01:53:14,709 --> 01:53:11,199
then there is a god

3118
01:53:17,030 --> 01:53:14,719
and to me that you know that sounds

3119
01:53:17,830 --> 01:53:17,040
ridiculous in its sense but you think

3120
01:53:21,589 --> 01:53:17,840
about it that's

3121
01:53:23,030 --> 01:53:21,599
really profound because to this person

3122
01:53:25,189 --> 01:53:23,040
the existence of a god in the

3123
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:25,199
traditional way is so

3124
01:53:31,430 --> 01:53:28,560
um is so unlikely

3125
01:53:32,149 --> 01:53:31,440
that even an extreme explanation that he

3126
01:53:35,350 --> 01:53:32,159
had

3127
01:53:37,669 --> 01:53:35,360
to explain a certain set of data

3128
01:53:39,510 --> 01:53:37,679
whereas everybody else you know could if

3129
01:53:40,070 --> 01:53:39,520
they saw that which nobody has by the

3130
01:53:43,189 --> 01:53:40,080
way

3131
01:53:44,470 --> 01:53:43,199
and certainly in recent times even no

3132
01:53:47,669 --> 01:53:44,480
claims to that

3133
01:53:49,510 --> 01:53:47,679
um they would they would

3134
01:53:50,790 --> 01:53:49,520
look upon that it's just a you know a

3135
01:53:54,149 --> 01:53:50,800
god-driven miracle

3136
01:53:59,350 --> 01:53:54,159
what was that person's name

3137
01:54:03,990 --> 01:54:02,470
his first name is b rundle you can look

3138
01:54:06,470 --> 01:54:04,000
yeah you can search him on closer to

3139
01:54:08,870 --> 01:54:06,480
truth.com have interviews with him

3140
01:54:10,709 --> 01:54:08,880
he wrote a very interesting book called

3141
01:54:11,510 --> 01:54:10,719
why there is something rather than

3142
01:54:14,709 --> 01:54:11,520
nothing

3143
01:54:16,629 --> 01:54:14,719
uh which uh gives one answer to that big

3144
01:54:18,470 --> 01:54:16,639
question that you know i'd like to

3145
01:54:20,229 --> 01:54:18,480
to deal with uh that's one of his his

3146
01:54:22,149 --> 01:54:20,239
his works but he's a very strong atheist

3147
01:54:23,669 --> 01:54:22,159
and a very good thinker

3148
01:54:25,109 --> 01:54:23,679
well i find beat rundle's argument

3149
01:54:25,990 --> 01:54:25,119
except that i agree with it yeah

3150
01:54:27,830 --> 01:54:26,000
facetious

3151
01:54:30,709 --> 01:54:27,840
unless he was being purposefully so or

3152
01:54:32,229 --> 01:54:30,719
specious at least because

3153
01:54:33,750 --> 01:54:32,239
firstly it depends on how one defines

3154
01:54:35,030 --> 01:54:33,760
god and their interdictions against that

3155
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:35,040
in virtually every religion

3156
01:54:38,550 --> 01:54:36,719
especially the judeo-christian and

3157
01:54:40,870 --> 01:54:38,560
islamic tradition second

3158
01:54:42,470 --> 01:54:40,880
it so what definition of probability are

3159
01:54:43,270 --> 01:54:42,480
you using to say that this probably

3160
01:54:45,189 --> 01:54:43,280
isn't the case

3161
01:54:46,950 --> 01:54:45,199
there's a measure theoretic definition

3162
01:54:48,950 --> 01:54:46,960
that's the mathematical one

3163
01:54:50,709 --> 01:54:48,960
what what what is it what he was

3164
01:54:51,830 --> 01:54:50,719
illustrating not facetiously he was

3165
01:54:55,109 --> 01:54:51,840
illustrating

3166
01:54:56,149 --> 01:54:55,119
that that we're so used to definitions

3167
01:54:59,589 --> 01:54:56,159
of god

3168
01:55:04,310 --> 01:54:59,599
that we think it it it it is logical

3169
01:55:07,510 --> 01:55:04,320
it it it is a uh it is a definition

3170
01:55:09,030 --> 01:55:07,520
that that is

3171
01:55:10,790 --> 01:55:09,040
acceptable within the range of

3172
01:55:11,270 --> 01:55:10,800
probabilities and what he what he's

3173
01:55:13,030 --> 01:55:11,280
saying

3174
01:55:15,350 --> 01:55:13,040
he was just using it to show from his

3175
01:55:17,510 --> 01:55:15,360
perspective on a on a de novo

3176
01:55:19,430 --> 01:55:17,520
basis uh just looking at a thing

3177
01:55:20,229 --> 01:55:19,440
probably that the existence of such a

3178
01:55:23,430 --> 01:55:20,239
being

3179
01:55:25,350 --> 01:55:23,440
is so extraordinarily um uh

3180
01:55:26,709 --> 01:55:25,360
unlikely and that's what he was trying

3181
01:55:29,669 --> 01:55:26,719
to convey

3182
01:55:31,430 --> 01:55:29,679
uh that it's so extraordinarily unlikely

3183
01:55:33,589 --> 01:55:31,440
uh avenitio from

3184
01:55:35,669 --> 01:55:33,599
from first principles if you if you

3185
01:55:37,910 --> 01:55:35,679
weren't acculturated as we are

3186
01:55:38,709 --> 01:55:37,920
that that's what he was trying to say um

3187
01:55:42,149 --> 01:55:38,719
and it was

3188
01:55:44,070 --> 01:55:42,159
it's it's a it's a striking um

3189
01:55:45,430 --> 01:55:44,080
it's it it's striking and it sounds

3190
01:55:48,070 --> 01:55:45,440
facetious but

3191
01:55:50,149 --> 01:55:48,080
it was it was making a strong point that

3192
01:55:51,669 --> 01:55:50,159
if we were not so acculturated

3193
01:55:53,830 --> 01:55:51,679
from his point right now some people say

3194
01:55:54,870 --> 01:55:53,840
that you know the the belief in god is

3195
01:55:56,790 --> 01:55:54,880
acculturated in

3196
01:55:58,629 --> 01:55:56,800
all traditions around the world and

3197
01:55:59,350 --> 01:55:58,639
everybody sort of believes it naturally

3198
01:56:05,350 --> 01:55:59,360
and

3199
01:56:06,870 --> 01:56:05,360
a basic belief of human beings this is

3200
01:56:10,229 --> 01:56:06,880
alvin planiga's famous

3201
01:56:14,629 --> 01:56:10,239
uh kind of argument about uh you don't

3202
01:56:16,310 --> 01:56:14,639
need you know when i interviewed hal of

3203
01:56:18,070 --> 01:56:16,320
one of my one of our segments we had

3204
01:56:21,270 --> 01:56:18,080
many many segments for that

3205
01:56:21,990 --> 01:56:21,280
30 here very appreciate that and one of

3206
01:56:23,830 --> 01:56:22,000
my

3207
01:56:25,589 --> 01:56:23,840
you know these segments these 10-minute

3208
01:56:26,950 --> 01:56:25,599
segments were arguments for god and i

3209
01:56:28,550 --> 01:56:26,960
said how

3210
01:56:30,790 --> 01:56:28,560
your point of view you believe in god he

3211
01:56:31,589 --> 01:56:30,800
said yes what do you think are the best

3212
01:56:34,149 --> 01:56:31,599
arguments

3213
01:56:34,790 --> 01:56:34,159
for the existence of god uh that was the

3214
01:56:36,629 --> 01:56:34,800
segment

3215
01:56:38,709 --> 01:56:36,639
and he said uh okay i'm gonna give you

3216
01:56:41,350 --> 01:56:38,719
some arguments but i first want to say

3217
01:56:42,470 --> 01:56:41,360
is i don't think you need arguments to

3218
01:56:44,390 --> 01:56:42,480
believe in god

3219
01:56:46,070 --> 01:56:44,400
and that you're fully justified

3220
01:56:47,030 --> 01:56:46,080
warranted you know honest in your

3221
01:56:49,910 --> 01:56:47,040
beliefs and

3222
01:56:51,669 --> 01:56:49,920
and fully rational to believe in god

3223
01:56:54,950 --> 01:56:51,679
without any arguments

3224
01:56:56,070 --> 01:56:54,960
now this is this was al's big

3225
01:56:58,470 --> 01:56:56,080
contribution one of his big

3226
01:57:00,070 --> 01:56:58,480
contributions to philosophy religion and

3227
01:57:02,310 --> 01:57:00,080
christian philosophy in particular

3228
01:57:03,270 --> 01:57:02,320
is to say that you could be a warranted

3229
01:57:05,350 --> 01:57:03,280
belief

3230
01:57:06,550 --> 01:57:05,360
in god without evidence and without

3231
01:57:09,510 --> 01:57:06,560
arguments

3232
01:57:10,390 --> 01:57:09,520
um and that the belief in god is similar

3233
01:57:13,350 --> 01:57:10,400
to the belief

3234
01:57:14,790 --> 01:57:13,360
and in the existence of the past like

3235
01:57:17,910 --> 01:57:14,800
you and i have been talking for

3236
01:57:21,510 --> 01:57:17,920
uh now two hours of

3237
01:57:23,270 --> 01:57:21,520
enjoyable time um and uh you know

3238
01:57:26,070 --> 01:57:23,280
did what we did in the first hour was

3239
01:57:26,629 --> 01:57:26,080
that real or or not well you and i both

3240
01:57:29,669 --> 01:57:26,639
believe

3241
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:29,679
did in the first hour

3242
01:57:32,870 --> 01:57:32,159
really happened but you know how how do

3243
01:57:36,950 --> 01:57:32,880
we know that

3244
01:57:38,870 --> 01:57:36,960
sort of a basic belief

3245
01:57:40,870 --> 01:57:38,880
that we have and i believe that you know

3246
01:57:42,790 --> 01:57:40,880
i'm sent in my mind and

3247
01:57:44,310 --> 01:57:42,800
and i believe that you are as well

3248
01:57:45,990 --> 01:57:44,320
although you could be a philosophical

3249
01:57:47,350 --> 01:57:46,000
robot and have nothing inside just have

3250
01:57:49,910 --> 01:57:47,360
a lot of

3251
01:57:52,229 --> 01:57:49,920
stimuli and responses that's possible

3252
01:57:53,430 --> 01:57:52,239
but i believe in other minds so al's

3253
01:57:55,109 --> 01:57:53,440
point of view is that

3254
01:57:57,270 --> 01:57:55,119
if you believe in the existence of the

3255
01:57:58,390 --> 01:57:57,280
past and you believe in the existence of

3256
01:58:01,109 --> 01:57:58,400
other minds

3257
01:58:02,950 --> 01:58:01,119
you you should be able to believe in god

3258
01:58:06,470 --> 01:58:02,960
at the same level of confidence

3259
01:58:10,070 --> 01:58:06,480
without argument now one can argue that

3260
01:58:12,790 --> 01:58:10,080
wait why is that the case because

3261
01:58:14,390 --> 01:58:12,800
belief in god is what al would call a

3262
01:58:18,830 --> 01:58:14,400
basic belief

3263
01:58:23,430 --> 01:58:21,750
beings in the same way that our belief

3264
01:58:24,950 --> 01:58:23,440
in the past is and so on

3265
01:58:27,109 --> 01:58:24,960
and we have belief in the past or belief

3266
01:58:27,830 --> 01:58:27,119
in other minds so our our concept of

3267
01:58:30,390 --> 01:58:27,840
belief in power

3268
01:58:32,229 --> 01:58:30,400
so he would say the level of belief in

3269
01:58:33,990 --> 01:58:32,239
god that you were entirely justified in

3270
01:58:37,589 --> 01:58:34,000
believing in god and being rational

3271
01:58:41,189 --> 01:58:37,599
etc um because it is so

3272
01:58:43,589 --> 01:58:41,199
uh intrinsic to uh to human sentience

3273
01:58:45,189 --> 01:58:43,599
uh that's his argument and it's a it's a

3274
01:58:48,149 --> 01:58:45,199
powerful and an important one

3275
01:58:50,229 --> 01:58:48,159
many people reject it of course um as

3276
01:58:52,229 --> 01:58:50,239
you know obviously i i've heard it and i

3277
01:58:53,270 --> 01:58:52,239
don't totally accept it yeah i don't see

3278
01:58:54,390 --> 01:58:53,280
why

3279
01:58:56,390 --> 01:58:54,400
i know you're not a defender of it i

3280
01:58:57,589 --> 01:58:56,400
don't see why it follows from the fact

3281
01:58:59,350 --> 01:58:57,599
that you believe in the past

3282
01:59:01,270 --> 01:58:59,360
and other minds that you then can

3283
01:59:02,070 --> 01:59:01,280
believe whatever intuitively comes to

3284
01:59:04,070 --> 01:59:02,080
you

3285
01:59:05,350 --> 01:59:04,080
it doesn't follow from it that's that's

3286
01:59:08,709 --> 01:59:05,360
not that's not the

3287
01:59:10,229 --> 01:59:08,719
that's the logic it is the same level of

3288
01:59:12,070 --> 01:59:10,239
uh of significance

3289
01:59:13,910 --> 01:59:12,080
it doesn't follow from the past of the

3290
01:59:16,229 --> 01:59:13,920
mind it just says with the same

3291
01:59:17,430 --> 01:59:16,239
confidence level that you have that

3292
01:59:19,350 --> 01:59:17,440
there was a past

3293
01:59:20,709 --> 01:59:19,360
the same confidence level that you have

3294
01:59:22,709 --> 01:59:20,719
in other minds

3295
01:59:24,790 --> 01:59:22,719
you should have that same confidence

3296
01:59:26,070 --> 01:59:24,800
level if somebody says they believe in

3297
01:59:29,109 --> 01:59:26,080
god you don't have to

3298
01:59:31,030 --> 01:59:29,119
subject them to proving

3299
01:59:33,430 --> 01:59:31,040
through the cosmological argument or the

3300
01:59:34,950 --> 01:59:33,440
ontological argument or the teleological

3301
01:59:36,550 --> 01:59:34,960
argument or

3302
01:59:38,070 --> 01:59:36,560
you know the fine-tuning argument any

3303
01:59:38,870 --> 01:59:38,080
argument you don't need any of those now

3304
01:59:41,270 --> 01:59:38,880
you may

3305
01:59:42,470 --> 01:59:41,280
want to enjoy thinking about those and

3306
01:59:44,550 --> 01:59:42,480
using those

3307
01:59:45,589 --> 01:59:44,560
but you don't need any of them that was

3308
01:59:47,669 --> 01:59:45,599
his argument i see

3309
01:59:49,589 --> 01:59:47,679
that you don't need arguments for god

3310
01:59:52,870 --> 01:59:49,599
again you can argue that

3311
01:59:54,149 --> 01:59:52,880
um but you know the importance is uh to

3312
01:59:57,830 --> 01:59:54,159
understand

3313
01:59:59,430 --> 01:59:57,840
uh the the nature of belief systems now

3314
02:00:03,510 --> 01:59:59,440
bead rondo

3315
02:00:04,390 --> 02:00:03,520
takes that same view exactly 180 degrees

3316
02:00:06,870 --> 02:00:04,400
opposite

3317
02:00:09,109 --> 02:00:06,880
that's why i brought it up so pete

3318
02:00:13,030 --> 02:00:09,119
rundle said the existence of god

3319
02:00:14,870 --> 02:00:13,040
is so unlikely and so absurd and so

3320
02:00:19,189 --> 02:00:14,880
ridiculous to have this

3321
02:00:21,990 --> 02:00:19,199
concept that if if somebody is healed

3322
02:00:24,790 --> 02:00:22,000
that we it's a real healing it's more

3323
02:00:28,070 --> 02:00:24,800
logical to have these aliens in a hidden

3324
02:00:31,350 --> 02:00:28,080
spaceship having done it rather than god

3325
02:00:33,109 --> 02:00:31,360
and and my my only point is i really

3326
02:00:35,510 --> 02:00:33,119
like these two guys

3327
02:00:36,550 --> 02:00:35,520
these are you know i love being with

3328
02:00:39,270 --> 02:00:36,560
them uh these are

3329
02:00:39,990 --> 02:00:39,280
you know i i didn't know dee rundle that

3330
02:00:42,629 --> 02:00:40,000
well

3331
02:00:44,550 --> 02:00:42,639
um but i enjoyed my time with him and al

3332
02:00:45,669 --> 02:00:44,560
planing is one of the great philosophers

3333
02:00:50,390 --> 02:00:45,679
and

3334
02:00:55,030 --> 02:00:50,400
i treasure

3335
02:00:57,350 --> 02:00:55,040
but here they are absolutely opposite

3336
02:00:58,070 --> 02:00:57,360
on this point i mean so much so that

3337
02:01:00,310 --> 02:00:58,080
each

3338
02:01:01,189 --> 02:01:00,320
makes i can't i can't think of more

3339
02:01:04,310 --> 02:01:01,199
extreme

3340
02:01:07,109 --> 02:01:04,320
cases of being opposite where

3341
02:01:07,990 --> 02:01:07,119
one says belief in god you don't need

3342
02:01:10,470 --> 02:01:08,000
any arguments

3343
02:01:11,589 --> 02:01:10,480
for that it's just as basic to human

3344
02:01:14,790 --> 02:01:11,599
existence

3345
02:01:17,189 --> 02:01:14,800
as acknowledging there was a past

3346
02:01:18,149 --> 02:01:17,199
or that other minds exist and another

3347
02:01:20,310 --> 02:01:18,159
person saying

3348
02:01:21,270 --> 02:01:20,320
no matter what would happen no matter

3349
02:01:23,350 --> 02:01:21,280
what evidence

3350
02:01:25,030 --> 02:01:23,360
you would you could show me it doesn't

3351
02:01:26,470 --> 02:01:25,040
matter what you evidence you would show

3352
02:01:29,270 --> 02:01:26,480
me i will never

3353
02:01:30,390 --> 02:01:29,280
believe that the the the cause of that

3354
02:01:32,790 --> 02:01:30,400
evidence

3355
02:01:34,950 --> 02:01:32,800
is a god rather than some other kind of

3356
02:01:38,149 --> 02:01:34,960
explanation

3357
02:01:39,830 --> 02:01:38,159
and to me uh that

3358
02:01:41,669 --> 02:01:39,840
that to some people that would seem

3359
02:01:42,310 --> 02:01:41,679
terrible to have two smart people so

3360
02:01:45,510 --> 02:01:42,320
opposite

3361
02:01:46,149 --> 02:01:45,520
i think is wonderful i i i think it it

3362
02:01:49,109 --> 02:01:46,159
it's so

3363
02:01:50,709 --> 02:01:49,119
expressive of the of the human condition

3364
02:01:52,149 --> 02:01:50,719
and these are not people who

3365
02:01:54,070 --> 02:01:52,159
who don't think about these are people

3366
02:01:55,589 --> 02:01:54,080
to whom these questions are the

3367
02:01:57,430 --> 02:01:55,599
deepest part of their lives they've

3368
02:01:58,870 --> 02:01:57,440
devoted their entire lives to thinking

3369
02:02:01,350 --> 02:01:58,880
about these questions

3370
02:02:01,910 --> 02:02:01,360
and come up with such diverse answers uh

3371
02:02:04,550 --> 02:02:01,920
but when

3372
02:02:05,990 --> 02:02:04,560
when people do that when they have such

3373
02:02:08,229 --> 02:02:06,000
diversity

3374
02:02:10,229 --> 02:02:08,239
and such sophistication thinking about

3375
02:02:11,830 --> 02:02:10,239
topics like this i mean that's

3376
02:02:13,270 --> 02:02:11,840
core closer to truth and that's what we

3377
02:02:16,390 --> 02:02:13,280
try to bring to

3378
02:02:17,830 --> 02:02:16,400
to our audiences about

3379
02:02:19,910 --> 02:02:17,840
both of those arguments i want to tell

3380
02:02:22,470 --> 02:02:19,920
you what occurs to me i

3381
02:02:23,270 --> 02:02:22,480
again like i'm just a devil's advocate i

3382
02:02:25,510 --> 02:02:23,280
see flaws so

3383
02:02:27,589 --> 02:02:25,520
with alvin's position what occurs to me

3384
02:02:31,510 --> 02:02:27,599
is monotheism is relatively new

3385
02:02:33,030 --> 02:02:31,520
so if you go back fourth even 3000 years

3386
02:02:35,030 --> 02:02:33,040
then would that not be an argument for

3387
02:02:36,629 --> 02:02:35,040
polytheism rather than a belief in a god

3388
02:02:38,950 --> 02:02:36,639
that's what occurs to me okay so that's

3389
02:02:41,990 --> 02:02:38,960
number one and then for

3390
02:02:45,109 --> 02:02:42,000
bead grundle is that correct yeah for b

3391
02:02:47,350 --> 02:02:45,119
grundles again he's using

3392
02:02:49,030 --> 02:02:47,360
unless he's using the measure theoretic

3393
02:02:50,709 --> 02:02:49,040
definition of

3394
02:02:52,070 --> 02:02:50,719
probability which he's not because

3395
02:02:53,830 --> 02:02:52,080
that's actually you need many

3396
02:02:55,750 --> 02:02:53,840
many many many data points like in the

3397
02:02:57,270 --> 02:02:55,760
financial world in order to use that

3398
02:02:59,030 --> 02:02:57,280
then he's using a folk definition when

3399
02:03:00,229 --> 02:02:59,040
he's saying unlikely which means he's

3400
02:03:03,109 --> 02:03:00,239
using

3401
02:03:05,030 --> 02:03:03,119
propensity or subjective or or

3402
02:03:07,030 --> 02:03:05,040
frequentist and so on they're all flawed

3403
02:03:08,709 --> 02:03:07,040
so then one and then it also depends on

3404
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:08,719
the drake equation which runs the gamut

3405
02:03:12,470 --> 02:03:11,040
from 100 certainty that extraterrestrial

3406
02:03:14,709 --> 02:03:12,480
intelligent life exists to

3407
02:03:16,149 --> 02:03:14,719
10 to the minus 400. you'd be making

3408
02:03:17,669 --> 02:03:16,159
vast assumptions there plus you're

3409
02:03:19,510 --> 02:03:17,679
making vast assumptions as to what

3410
02:03:21,189 --> 02:03:19,520
constitutes god

3411
02:03:23,030 --> 02:03:21,199
so i don't see why he could say with any

3412
02:03:28,070 --> 02:03:23,040
certainty that it's unlikely that it's

3413
02:03:30,310 --> 02:03:28,080
god or it's likely to be aliens

3414
02:03:31,830 --> 02:03:30,320
you're you're critiquing both positions

3415
02:03:34,870 --> 02:03:31,840
and i think that's uh

3416
02:03:37,030 --> 02:03:34,880
that's entirely uh justified um

3417
02:03:38,229 --> 02:03:37,040
i'm just looking at each one in its own

3418
02:03:41,270 --> 02:03:38,239
right um

3419
02:03:43,350 --> 02:03:41,280
and and why these people have come to

3420
02:03:46,870 --> 02:03:43,360
the view that they have and as i said i

3421
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:46,880
i can't pick more diametrically opposite

3422
02:03:50,790 --> 02:03:49,840
views and that to me is fun i mean these

3423
02:03:53,430 --> 02:03:50,800
are the most

3424
02:03:54,069 --> 02:03:53,440
opposite views you can have one saying

3425
02:03:57,350 --> 02:03:54,079
you don't

3426
02:04:00,470 --> 02:03:57,360
existence of god it is

3427
02:04:03,350 --> 02:04:00,480
properly basic in human psyche now

3428
02:04:04,870 --> 02:04:03,360
you can say that going back that it was

3429
02:04:06,390 --> 02:04:04,880
polytheistic and but

3430
02:04:09,030 --> 02:04:06,400
people always had this sense of

3431
02:04:11,589 --> 02:04:09,040
something beyond themselves i see i see

3432
02:04:13,430 --> 02:04:11,599
a lot of that uh but there's something

3433
02:04:15,350 --> 02:04:13,440
intrinsically basic

3434
02:04:17,510 --> 02:04:15,360
about this this belief on the one hand

3435
02:04:21,109 --> 02:04:17,520
on the other the other hand it's just

3436
02:04:23,830 --> 02:04:21,119
it's so absurd that um

3437
02:04:24,709 --> 02:04:23,840
virtually any other explanation uh would

3438
02:04:28,149 --> 02:04:24,719
be better

3439
02:04:29,669 --> 02:04:28,159
um that's just expressing two different

3440
02:04:32,790 --> 02:04:29,679
views that both of them

3441
02:04:33,270 --> 02:04:32,800
you know can be severely critiqued than

3442
02:04:35,189 --> 02:04:33,280
they are

3443
02:04:36,790 --> 02:04:35,199
and that and justify when we do that on

3444
02:04:40,069 --> 02:04:36,800
closer to truth that's fine

3445
02:04:42,310 --> 02:04:40,079
um but to to deposit these two

3446
02:04:46,069 --> 02:04:42,320
diametrically opposite views

3447
02:04:49,270 --> 02:04:46,079
is to me uh a very rich data point

3448
02:04:52,390 --> 02:04:49,280
in uh in assessing uh human

3449
02:04:54,790 --> 02:04:52,400
um sentience and cognizance and and

3450
02:04:56,229 --> 02:04:54,800
dealing with these big questions it's

3451
02:04:58,629 --> 02:04:56,239
extremely interesting

3452
02:04:59,990 --> 02:04:58,639
something that i think you would find

3453
02:05:03,109 --> 02:05:00,000
maybe you've thought about this

3454
02:05:05,109 --> 02:05:03,119
quite a bit why is it that these why is

3455
02:05:06,550 --> 02:05:05,119
it that brilliant people

3456
02:05:09,030 --> 02:05:06,560
obviously that depends on what you call

3457
02:05:11,030 --> 02:05:09,040
brilliant but why is it that

3458
02:05:12,470 --> 02:05:11,040
they disagree when they have access to

3459
02:05:14,390 --> 02:05:12,480
the same data

3460
02:05:15,830 --> 02:05:14,400
and they're not unless you want to say

3461
02:05:20,069 --> 02:05:15,840
that they're

3462
02:05:21,430 --> 02:05:20,079
biased now let's remove the bias because

3463
02:05:23,830 --> 02:05:21,440
well maybe you can't remove the bias

3464
02:05:25,669 --> 02:05:23,840
either way why do you think it is that

3465
02:05:27,990 --> 02:05:25,679
people disagree like noam chomsky versus

3466
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:28,000
peterson or bernardo castro versus

3467
02:05:33,189 --> 02:05:30,000
virtually all of your guests why is it

3468
02:05:36,950 --> 02:05:34,629
is it that they have access to different

3469
02:05:40,790 --> 02:05:39,030
no i i think i think uh you know we

3470
02:05:41,750 --> 02:05:40,800
posit they have everybody has access to

3471
02:05:44,790 --> 02:05:41,760
the same data now

3472
02:05:47,510 --> 02:05:44,800
each has belief systems which are either

3473
02:05:48,950 --> 02:05:47,520
unconscious or developed culturally or

3474
02:05:51,589 --> 02:05:48,960
deliberately

3475
02:05:53,030 --> 02:05:51,599
manifest in terms of their own their own

3476
02:05:55,109 --> 02:05:53,040
study as they've had

3477
02:05:57,030 --> 02:05:55,119
but they bring different belief systems

3478
02:05:59,830 --> 02:05:57,040
and and that's why

3479
02:06:02,790 --> 02:05:59,840
you know we've we've run shows and the

3480
02:06:05,030 --> 02:06:02,800
universe is theologically ambiguous

3481
02:06:05,990 --> 02:06:05,040
religiously ambiguous because you're

3482
02:06:09,030 --> 02:06:06,000
able to take

3483
02:06:12,149 --> 02:06:09,040
these questions and and interpret the

3484
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:12,159
data based upon your belief system

3485
02:06:17,990 --> 02:06:15,360
and i think that itself is a kind of

3486
02:06:18,870 --> 02:06:18,000
truth which is really important that we

3487
02:06:21,990 --> 02:06:18,880
can

3488
02:06:25,109 --> 02:06:22,000
the fact

3489
02:06:28,149 --> 02:06:25,119
that smart people take the same set

3490
02:06:29,669 --> 02:06:28,159
of externalities data

3491
02:06:31,430 --> 02:06:29,679
and come to radically different

3492
02:06:33,750 --> 02:06:31,440
conclusions about

3493
02:06:35,430 --> 02:06:33,760
the big questions that we deal with and

3494
02:06:37,270 --> 02:06:35,440
so that is a truth

3495
02:06:38,950 --> 02:06:37,280
and that is an absolute truth that's not

3496
02:06:41,750 --> 02:06:38,960
a relative truth that's a

3497
02:06:44,390 --> 02:06:41,760
a very clear absolute truth that's a

3498
02:06:45,910 --> 02:06:44,400
that's a fact of our world and i think

3499
02:06:47,990 --> 02:06:45,920
that fact of our world

3500
02:06:49,350 --> 02:06:48,000
is an important data point in

3501
02:06:51,270 --> 02:06:49,360
understanding our world

3502
02:06:52,709 --> 02:06:51,280
so it sounds like we've made no progress

3503
02:06:53,910 --> 02:06:52,719
because we've said that

3504
02:06:56,470 --> 02:06:53,920
some people believe one thing some

3505
02:06:58,149 --> 02:06:56,480
people believe in other but i

3506
02:07:00,870 --> 02:06:58,159
i would disagree i would say we have

3507
02:07:04,149 --> 02:07:00,880
made progress but because we see

3508
02:07:05,589 --> 02:07:04,159
that these people have made dramatically

3509
02:07:07,669 --> 02:07:05,599
different conclusions

3510
02:07:08,950 --> 02:07:07,679
based on the same set of the data and

3511
02:07:11,910 --> 02:07:08,960
these are

3512
02:07:14,229 --> 02:07:11,920
all smart people trained in science or

3513
02:07:16,390 --> 02:07:14,239
trained in philosophy or trained in a

3514
02:07:18,229 --> 02:07:16,400
logical way of thinking and they're

3515
02:07:18,950 --> 02:07:18,239
coming to different conclusions so that

3516
02:07:22,470 --> 02:07:18,960
is a

3517
02:07:25,990 --> 02:07:22,480
firm data point about existence

3518
02:07:28,470 --> 02:07:26,000
that you can see different

3519
02:07:29,589 --> 02:07:28,480
you can come to dramatically different

3520
02:07:33,030 --> 02:07:29,599
conclusions

3521
02:07:35,350 --> 02:07:33,040
even though people have the same

3522
02:07:37,270 --> 02:07:35,360
set of ways of thinking they're all

3523
02:07:40,709 --> 02:07:37,280
trained in the same system

3524
02:07:42,470 --> 02:07:40,719
and they and they have access to the

3525
02:07:44,950 --> 02:07:42,480
same external data

3526
02:07:46,069 --> 02:07:44,960
and so this is this is a this is a fact

3527
02:07:47,910 --> 02:07:46,079
of our world

3528
02:07:50,390 --> 02:07:47,920
and i think an important one and i think

3529
02:07:52,390 --> 02:07:50,400
it's one that is not a triviality i

3530
02:07:54,310 --> 02:07:52,400
think it's a it's an it's it's progress

3531
02:07:55,510 --> 02:07:54,320
to understand that

3532
02:07:58,390 --> 02:07:55,520
do you feel like you've gotten any

3533
02:08:01,430 --> 02:07:58,400
closer to truth

3534
02:08:02,149 --> 02:08:01,440
so my wife would say that she's a

3535
02:08:04,950 --> 02:08:02,159
pianist

3536
02:08:06,790 --> 02:08:04,960
um not not a scientist and not dealing

3537
02:08:09,189 --> 02:08:06,800
with these questions she said that when

3538
02:08:12,629 --> 02:08:09,199
we met which was now

3539
02:08:13,589 --> 02:08:12,639
uh how many years ago 54 55 years ago

3540
02:08:16,950 --> 02:08:13,599
congrats man

3541
02:08:19,750 --> 02:08:16,960
that she and i she

3542
02:08:21,189 --> 02:08:19,760
she and i were at the same kind of level

3543
02:08:24,229 --> 02:08:21,199
of knowledge about

3544
02:08:27,189 --> 02:08:24,239
things and now i've done um

3545
02:08:29,109 --> 02:08:27,199
you know 300 closer to truth shows and 4

3546
02:08:31,109 --> 02:08:29,119
000 interview questions

3547
02:08:32,390 --> 02:08:31,119
and she says we're still at the same

3548
02:08:34,229 --> 02:08:32,400
level of

3549
02:08:36,790 --> 02:08:34,239
understanding these questions even

3550
02:08:39,990 --> 02:08:36,800
though i've done uh

3551
02:08:41,030 --> 02:08:40,000
4 000 views and she's done none and i've

3552
02:08:44,550 --> 02:08:41,040
thought about this

3553
02:08:46,149 --> 02:08:44,560
for you know 50 years and intensely with

3554
02:08:46,790 --> 02:08:46,159
closer to truth the last 20 years and

3555
02:08:49,030 --> 02:08:46,800
she

3556
02:08:50,470 --> 02:08:49,040
doesn't think about these things at all

3557
02:08:53,109 --> 02:08:50,480
and we're both at the same level

3558
02:08:55,109 --> 02:08:53,119
there's a kind of truth in that in terms

3559
02:08:58,390 --> 02:08:55,119
of coming to an answer

3560
02:09:00,629 --> 02:08:58,400
but i think in reality um i have

3561
02:09:01,830 --> 02:09:00,639
a very deep appreciation for the nature

3562
02:09:04,629 --> 02:09:01,840
of the questions

3563
02:09:05,430 --> 02:09:04,639
i'm more excited about them than than

3564
02:09:07,910 --> 02:09:05,440
ever

3565
02:09:09,270 --> 02:09:07,920
um so it's not after talking to so many

3566
02:09:10,629 --> 02:09:09,280
people and hearing so many theories

3567
02:09:12,550 --> 02:09:10,639
you know i'm kind of fed up and i've

3568
02:09:13,990 --> 02:09:12,560
heard everything and no it's the

3569
02:09:16,390 --> 02:09:14,000
opposite it's just

3570
02:09:17,270 --> 02:09:16,400
you know it kind of luxuriating as i've

3571
02:09:19,750 --> 02:09:17,280
said in these

3572
02:09:20,870 --> 02:09:19,760
questions and appreciating the the depth

3573
02:09:23,510 --> 02:09:20,880
and the passion

3574
02:09:24,470 --> 02:09:23,520
um that people bring to them and new

3575
02:09:28,149 --> 02:09:24,480
ways of

3576
02:09:28,629 --> 02:09:28,159
closer to truth we will deal with the

3577
02:09:31,270 --> 02:09:28,639
same

3578
02:09:32,709 --> 02:09:31,280
question uh over and over again for

3579
02:09:34,550 --> 02:09:32,719
example why is this something rather

3580
02:09:35,589 --> 02:09:34,560
than nothing we call it the mystery of

3581
02:09:38,470 --> 02:09:35,599
existence

3582
02:09:39,189 --> 02:09:38,480
why not nothing uh what is the nature of

3583
02:09:41,189 --> 02:09:39,199
nothing

3584
02:09:43,030 --> 02:09:41,199
so we've had multiple shows people can

3585
02:09:44,709 --> 02:09:43,040
look that up on youtube or closer to

3586
02:09:46,950 --> 02:09:44,719
truth.com just put in

3587
02:09:48,390 --> 02:09:46,960
nothing and you'll see various shows

3588
02:09:50,069 --> 02:09:48,400
that we've done on that

3589
02:09:51,910 --> 02:09:50,079
many interviews it means put in the

3590
02:09:53,510 --> 02:09:51,920
actual quotation n-o

3591
02:09:56,030 --> 02:09:53,520
not put in nothing you won't get

3592
02:09:59,830 --> 02:09:56,040
anything yeah

3593
02:10:02,870 --> 02:09:59,840
n-o-t-h-i-n-g right exactly

3594
02:10:03,270 --> 02:10:02,880
uh and uh i don't know how we could code

3595
02:10:05,990 --> 02:10:03,280
for

3596
02:10:06,950 --> 02:10:06,000
literally putting in nothing um and then

3597
02:10:09,910 --> 02:10:06,960
um

3598
02:10:11,430 --> 02:10:09,920
uh nature of consciousness is

3599
02:10:13,189 --> 02:10:11,440
consciousness fundamental

3600
02:10:14,709 --> 02:10:13,199
uh what is the nature we've done so many

3601
02:10:16,470 --> 02:10:14,719
different ways because we have so many

3602
02:10:19,270 --> 02:10:16,480
different people to speak on these

3603
02:10:19,830 --> 02:10:19,280
issues and we've not exhausted it as you

3604
02:10:21,830 --> 02:10:19,840
mentioned

3605
02:10:23,510 --> 02:10:21,840
bernardo castro we look forward to

3606
02:10:27,189 --> 02:10:23,520
discussing with him as well

3607
02:10:30,069 --> 02:10:27,199
um in terms of the uh of the thinking so

3608
02:10:31,910 --> 02:10:30,079
it's you know you ask am i closer to

3609
02:10:35,350 --> 02:10:31,920
truth after all this time

3610
02:10:36,950 --> 02:10:35,360
i would say no in terms of an absolute

3611
02:10:38,870 --> 02:10:36,960
answer to questions

3612
02:10:40,390 --> 02:10:38,880
but certainly yes in terms of

3613
02:10:42,950 --> 02:10:40,400
appreciation of

3614
02:10:43,430 --> 02:10:42,960
what those answers would have to consist

3615
02:10:49,189 --> 02:10:43,440
of

3616
02:10:51,990 --> 02:10:49,199
the uncertainties are

3617
02:10:52,870 --> 02:10:52,000
i feel that there's a very rich sense of

3618
02:10:56,229 --> 02:10:52,880
that and that

3619
02:10:57,669 --> 02:10:56,239
that is really getting closer to truth

3620
02:11:00,229 --> 02:10:57,679
and uh

3621
02:11:01,669 --> 02:11:00,239
we're so pleased to have so many viewers

3622
02:11:04,069 --> 02:11:01,679
come along with us on this

3623
02:11:05,589 --> 02:11:04,079
uh on this journey robert with all these

3624
02:11:07,270 --> 02:11:05,599
people you interview

3625
02:11:09,030 --> 02:11:07,280
are you able to keep their different

3626
02:11:10,310 --> 02:11:09,040
theories now they're extremely disparate

3627
02:11:12,149 --> 02:11:10,320
but are you able to keep them

3628
02:11:13,990 --> 02:11:12,159
alive in your head such that you can

3629
02:11:15,030 --> 02:11:14,000
allude to them or quote them

3630
02:11:16,470 --> 02:11:15,040
when you're speaking to another

3631
02:11:18,310 --> 02:11:16,480
interviewer and if so how do you do that

3632
02:11:21,350 --> 02:11:18,320
do you take notes

3633
02:11:22,069 --> 02:11:21,360
yeah i i um i don't consider myself to

3634
02:11:25,510 --> 02:11:22,079
having a

3635
02:11:29,510 --> 02:11:25,520
you know spectacular memory um i i

3636
02:11:31,270 --> 02:11:29,520
i am focused on each interview on that

3637
02:11:35,189 --> 02:11:31,280
person's way of thinking

3638
02:11:38,629 --> 02:11:35,199
and i bring to it my own um my own

3639
02:11:41,830 --> 02:11:38,639
perceptions of that question and and i

3640
02:11:43,910 --> 02:11:41,840
i do it from my perspective as

3641
02:11:44,870 --> 02:11:43,920
as informed of course by everything else

3642
02:11:48,390 --> 02:11:44,880
i've done

3643
02:11:51,270 --> 02:11:48,400
but i i generally don't try to trade one

3644
02:11:53,430 --> 02:11:51,280
um set of opinions against another i

3645
02:11:55,750 --> 02:11:53,440
won't i won't say to one person well

3646
02:11:57,990 --> 02:11:55,760
uh alvin planning has said or richard

3647
02:12:01,189 --> 02:11:58,000
swinburne said or stephen weinberg said

3648
02:12:01,589 --> 02:12:01,199
or michael shermer said i i i don't do

3649
02:12:02,709 --> 02:12:01,599
that

3650
02:12:04,950 --> 02:12:02,719
don't listen to anything michael

3651
02:12:07,109 --> 02:12:04,960
schumer's i do it for my own no i'm just

3652
02:12:09,589 --> 02:12:07,119
kidding he's a friend

3653
02:12:11,589 --> 02:12:09,599
i do it from my own perspective uh but

3654
02:12:13,589 --> 02:12:11,599
again as enriched and informed by all

3655
02:12:16,229 --> 02:12:13,599
the conversations that i've had but

3656
02:12:17,589 --> 02:12:16,239
i i try to focus on each individual to

3657
02:12:19,910 --> 02:12:17,599
try to get the best

3658
02:12:21,750 --> 02:12:19,920
thinking out of that person by having

3659
02:12:24,149 --> 02:12:21,760
them you know some free

3660
02:12:24,790 --> 02:12:24,159
association some probative questions

3661
02:12:30,629 --> 02:12:24,800
some

3662
02:12:32,229 --> 02:12:30,639
attack or undermine their position just

3663
02:12:33,990 --> 02:12:32,239
to get more out of them

3664
02:12:35,669 --> 02:12:34,000
uh so that's that's that's what i try to

3665
02:12:38,709 --> 02:12:35,679
do so each interview is is

3666
02:12:40,950 --> 02:12:38,719
done on its own its own focus not

3667
02:12:41,750 --> 02:12:40,960
in terms of uh what other people think

3668
02:12:43,350 --> 02:12:41,760
when we

3669
02:12:45,270 --> 02:12:43,360
when peter gets else and i put together

3670
02:12:48,069 --> 02:12:45,280
the shows then we

3671
02:12:49,350 --> 02:12:48,079
we synthesize kind of an artificial

3672
02:12:51,990 --> 02:12:49,360
architecture

3673
02:12:52,390 --> 02:12:52,000
where we'll take four to six generally

3674
02:12:55,350 --> 02:12:52,400
five

3675
02:12:55,669 --> 02:12:55,360
people and and have a series of excerpts

3676
02:12:57,270 --> 02:12:55,679
three

3677
02:12:59,430 --> 02:12:57,280
four minutes each and then with some

3678
02:13:00,950 --> 02:12:59,440
interstitials as we go from one to the

3679
02:13:04,709 --> 02:13:00,960
other so we develop

3680
02:13:06,550 --> 02:13:04,719
a secret a a story it's artificial and

3681
02:13:08,069 --> 02:13:06,560
looks like it's you know happy

3682
02:13:11,270 --> 02:13:08,079
interesting separately

3683
02:13:13,589 --> 02:13:11,280
chronologically but it's not it it

3684
02:13:15,189 --> 02:13:13,599
we developed the chronology the apparent

3685
02:13:18,149 --> 02:13:15,199
chronology in the show

3686
02:13:18,950 --> 02:13:18,159
based upon a a flow of ideas and

3687
02:13:21,030 --> 02:13:18,960
argument

3688
02:13:21,990 --> 02:13:21,040
as opposed to a real real world

3689
02:13:26,390 --> 02:13:22,000
chronology which

3690
02:13:28,870 --> 02:13:26,400
it can't be um peter is the editor

3691
02:13:30,390 --> 02:13:28,880
uh peter getzel is he's the jur he's the

3692
02:13:32,229 --> 02:13:30,400
producer director and then he has

3693
02:13:35,750 --> 02:13:32,239
editors working for him which are

3694
02:13:36,870 --> 02:13:35,760
wonderful editors uh and i i'm very much

3695
02:13:39,350 --> 02:13:36,880
involved in the

3696
02:13:40,950 --> 02:13:39,360
uh in the in the selection so i work

3697
02:13:42,709 --> 02:13:40,960
together with them on script basis but

3698
02:13:43,750 --> 02:13:42,719
not the visual basis the way the show

3699
02:13:45,589 --> 02:13:43,760
works they

3700
02:13:47,109 --> 02:13:45,599
do all the visuals by themselves but i'm

3701
02:13:50,149 --> 02:13:47,119
i'm i i

3702
02:13:52,470 --> 02:13:50,159
i select every word uh in in uh

3703
02:13:54,470 --> 02:13:52,480
and then make it has to work as a film

3704
02:13:56,629 --> 02:13:54,480
so it's it's a long and complicated

3705
02:13:59,830 --> 02:13:56,639
process and it's totally consumption

3706
02:14:03,589 --> 02:13:59,840
when we do a show with one show you know

3707
02:14:07,030 --> 02:14:03,599
a little under 27 minutes of airtime

3708
02:14:07,669 --> 02:14:07,040
uh it is uh it is every word every frame

3709
02:14:10,069 --> 02:14:07,679
is uh

3710
02:14:12,310 --> 02:14:10,079
is thought about worried about focused

3711
02:14:14,229 --> 02:14:12,320
on my whole world is that one show

3712
02:14:16,310 --> 02:14:14,239
and when it's gone i don't i don't think

3713
02:14:18,149 --> 02:14:16,320
about it again do you rather these

3714
02:14:20,149 --> 02:14:18,159
podcasts that are unedited where you

3715
02:14:22,870 --> 02:14:20,159
just put up the footage online or do you

3716
02:14:24,950 --> 02:14:22,880
actually enjoy the editing process

3717
02:14:26,470 --> 02:14:24,960
it's another expression which we had

3718
02:14:29,589 --> 02:14:26,480
which we which was not

3719
02:14:31,350 --> 02:14:29,599
in in my dna and it was not part of

3720
02:14:33,189 --> 02:14:31,360
closer to truth until we were

3721
02:14:35,589 --> 02:14:33,199
forced to do it last year because of the

3722
02:14:37,589 --> 02:14:35,599
lockdown and so now we have

3723
02:14:39,350 --> 02:14:37,599
three expressions of closer to the truth

3724
02:14:42,069 --> 02:14:39,360
we used to have two we had our

3725
02:14:44,310 --> 02:14:42,079
super polish shows which are our crown

3726
02:14:46,470 --> 02:14:44,320
jewels which are most proud of that

3727
02:14:47,830 --> 02:14:46,480
most of them are on youtube now and

3728
02:14:50,870 --> 02:14:47,840
closer to truth.com

3729
02:14:51,589 --> 02:14:50,880
that they'll all be up in the next few

3730
02:14:54,229 --> 02:14:51,599
months

3731
02:14:55,830 --> 02:14:54,239
uh releasing one one uh one a week now

3732
02:14:59,350 --> 02:14:55,840
or several several a week

3733
02:15:01,430 --> 02:14:59,360
um and we have the raw interviews which

3734
02:15:02,870 --> 02:15:01,440
are these seven to 12 minute sessions of

3735
02:15:04,870 --> 02:15:02,880
which we have

3736
02:15:05,910 --> 02:15:04,880
over four thousand maybe five thousand

3737
02:15:08,870 --> 02:15:05,920
by now of these

3738
02:15:09,750 --> 02:15:08,880
segments and those are also very highly

3739
02:15:11,270 --> 02:15:09,760
produced

3740
02:15:13,109 --> 02:15:11,280
and now what we've done in the last

3741
02:15:14,229 --> 02:15:13,119
years we have the same things that you

3742
02:15:17,270 --> 02:15:14,239
and i are doing here

3743
02:15:18,709 --> 02:15:17,280
for uh your uh a podcast theory of

3744
02:15:20,550 --> 02:15:18,719
everything which is great

3745
02:15:21,750 --> 02:15:20,560
uh we've done that for closer to truth

3746
02:15:25,030 --> 02:15:21,760
so we've done

3747
02:15:27,750 --> 02:15:25,040
you know 15 or so uh what we

3748
02:15:29,350 --> 02:15:27,760
what we're calling closer to truth chats

3749
02:15:30,470 --> 02:15:29,360
and sometimes we do it live and

3750
02:15:32,310 --> 02:15:30,480
sometimes we

3751
02:15:33,990 --> 02:15:32,320
most of the time we we don't and we have

3752
02:15:36,790 --> 02:15:34,000
a very wide

3753
02:15:38,790 --> 02:15:36,800
variety of people um you know we did dan

3754
02:15:41,430 --> 02:15:38,800
danette then on free will

3755
02:15:42,870 --> 02:15:41,440
and uh george smoot nobel prize winner

3756
02:15:47,030 --> 02:15:42,880
in cosmology

3757
02:15:49,189 --> 02:15:47,040
uh jill tarter on alien intelligences

3758
02:15:54,870 --> 02:15:49,199
uh lynn milad now just did a book on

3759
02:15:58,229 --> 02:15:56,950
if someone wants to know when is your

3760
02:16:01,750 --> 02:15:58,239
correspondence with castro

3761
02:16:03,589 --> 02:16:01,760
going to be uh our plan is to do the

3762
02:16:03,990 --> 02:16:03,599
interview when we are shooting in the uk

3763
02:16:07,189 --> 02:16:04,000
next

3764
02:16:10,950 --> 02:16:07,199
year which will be in uh

3765
02:16:11,669 --> 02:16:10,960
planning for march of 2022 and we hope

3766
02:16:13,589 --> 02:16:11,679
to

3767
02:16:15,990 --> 02:16:13,599
schedule bernardo during that period of

3768
02:16:16,950 --> 02:16:16,000
time which would mean that the interview

3769
02:16:20,390 --> 02:16:16,960
would be

3770
02:16:23,109 --> 02:16:20,400
posted you know several months later

3771
02:16:24,149 --> 02:16:23,119
in uh in different segments uh because

3772
02:16:26,950 --> 02:16:24,159
when we

3773
02:16:27,669 --> 02:16:26,960
will hope to do you know 12 or so

3774
02:16:29,430 --> 02:16:27,679
segments

3775
02:16:31,430 --> 02:16:29,440
with bernardo and different ways of

3776
02:16:32,950 --> 02:16:31,440
approaching this topic it won't be

3777
02:16:34,469 --> 02:16:32,960
it won't be the kind of interview we're

3778
02:16:34,950 --> 02:16:34,479
doing here which is you know all

3779
02:16:37,110 --> 02:16:34,960
straight

3780
02:16:38,549 --> 02:16:37,120
they'll be in in segments and we'll post

3781
02:16:40,150 --> 02:16:38,559
the segments at that time and then

3782
02:16:42,549 --> 02:16:40,160
eventually those will find their way

3783
02:16:45,190 --> 02:16:42,559
into actual shows in which his views

3784
02:16:46,709 --> 02:16:45,200
will be contrasted with uh with others

3785
02:16:47,910 --> 02:16:46,719
i'll link to that in the description

3786
02:16:49,429 --> 02:16:47,920
once they're out just please

3787
02:16:51,110 --> 02:16:49,439
i'm pretty sure it'll get recommended to

3788
02:16:52,469 --> 02:16:51,120
me but if it doesn't send them to me and

3789
02:16:54,070 --> 02:16:52,479
i'll put it in the description of this

3790
02:16:55,509 --> 02:16:54,080
so if you're listening watching it's in

3791
02:16:58,629 --> 02:16:55,519
the description

3792
02:17:00,309 --> 02:16:58,639
okay someone named and by the way that

3793
02:17:01,669 --> 02:17:00,319
previous question came from panda

3794
02:17:04,150 --> 02:17:01,679
products

3795
02:17:05,830 --> 02:17:04,160
okay andrea s asks your favorite

3796
02:17:06,950 --> 02:17:05,840
question why does anything exist and how

3797
02:17:10,150 --> 02:17:06,960
has your thinking on this

3798
02:17:12,549 --> 02:17:10,160
changed um uh

3799
02:17:14,950 --> 02:17:12,559
you know the question of existence is

3800
02:17:18,870 --> 02:17:14,960
the the great question of uh

3801
02:17:20,629 --> 02:17:18,880
of uh of philosophy and indeed of

3802
02:17:22,469 --> 02:17:20,639
reality i've always said the

3803
02:17:24,070 --> 02:17:22,479
questions you know does god exist is

3804
02:17:25,830 --> 02:17:24,080
consciousness fundamental how did the

3805
02:17:27,669 --> 02:17:25,840
universe come about what about the

3806
02:17:28,950 --> 02:17:27,679
fundamental laws of physics life after

3807
02:17:30,870 --> 02:17:28,960
death these are all

3808
02:17:32,870 --> 02:17:30,880
super important big questions but i call

3809
02:17:34,389 --> 02:17:32,880
them second level questions the

3810
02:17:36,230 --> 02:17:34,399
primary question is why is there

3811
02:17:39,669 --> 02:17:36,240
anything at all

3812
02:17:42,150 --> 02:17:39,679
and um you know i had a

3813
02:17:43,429 --> 02:17:42,160
fascination of this when i was a

3814
02:17:45,349 --> 02:17:43,439
literally a child it

3815
02:17:46,870 --> 02:17:45,359
scared me so to think about it and i

3816
02:17:48,709 --> 02:17:46,880
thought it was unique and

3817
02:17:51,110 --> 02:17:48,719
over the years i found many people have

3818
02:17:54,750 --> 02:17:51,120
had that same experience that kind of

3819
02:17:57,349 --> 02:17:54,760
that uh that that feeling of

3820
02:17:58,469 --> 02:17:57,359
disassociation where you wonder what if

3821
02:18:01,429 --> 02:17:58,479
there were nothing

3822
02:18:01,990 --> 02:18:01,439
and it's a very scary uh scary thought

3823
02:18:04,230 --> 02:18:02,000
and

3824
02:18:05,190 --> 02:18:04,240
i've had the opportunity now over the

3825
02:18:08,309 --> 02:18:05,200
years to

3826
02:18:09,990 --> 02:18:08,319
develop this very very much in great

3827
02:18:12,389 --> 02:18:10,000
detail we've done

3828
02:18:14,950 --> 02:18:12,399
many shows on why is this something

3829
02:18:18,230 --> 02:18:14,960
rather than nothing what is nothing

3830
02:18:20,549 --> 02:18:18,240
why not nothing mystery of existence on

3831
02:18:21,509 --> 02:18:20,559
closer to truth dot com on closer to

3832
02:18:23,589 --> 02:18:21,519
youtube

3833
02:18:25,030 --> 02:18:23,599
but i have to give credit to one of our

3834
02:18:28,070 --> 02:18:25,040
early contributors

3835
02:18:30,150 --> 02:18:28,080
john leslie who is a

3836
02:18:31,990 --> 02:18:30,160
british canadian philosopher who

3837
02:18:35,669 --> 02:18:32,000
developed these ideas and

3838
02:18:37,830 --> 02:18:35,679
and other ideas in

3839
02:18:40,549 --> 02:18:37,840
developed the philosophy of cosmology as

3840
02:18:43,669 --> 02:18:40,559
well as a philosophy of existence

3841
02:18:46,309 --> 02:18:43,679
and john was was a great teacher

3842
02:18:47,830 --> 02:18:46,319
of mine i looked to him and very proud

3843
02:18:50,709 --> 02:18:47,840
to say we did a book together

3844
02:18:53,270 --> 02:18:50,719
um as a result of closer to truth it was

3845
02:18:54,389 --> 02:18:53,280
published in 2013 called the mystery of

3846
02:18:57,509 --> 02:18:54,399
existence

3847
02:19:00,950 --> 02:18:57,519
why is there anything at all in which

3848
02:19:04,389 --> 02:19:00,960
john was the lead editor and i was

3849
02:19:06,790 --> 02:19:04,399
happy to be editor with him and we uh

3850
02:19:08,790 --> 02:19:06,800
picked uh out of all human history

3851
02:19:11,349 --> 02:19:08,800
excerpts of the best thinkers

3852
02:19:13,830 --> 02:19:11,359
uh from plato onward uh to current

3853
02:19:15,509 --> 02:19:13,840
scientists etc dealing with the question

3854
02:19:17,429 --> 02:19:15,519
why is there something rather than

3855
02:19:20,469 --> 02:19:17,439
nothing and

3856
02:19:23,110 --> 02:19:20,479
um it's a very big topic

3857
02:19:25,589 --> 02:19:23,120
and an exciting one um i didn't know

3858
02:19:28,150 --> 02:19:25,599
plato had thoughts on that

3859
02:19:28,709 --> 02:19:28,160
yes uh i mean you could you could read

3860
02:19:31,750 --> 02:19:28,719
it

3861
02:19:34,870 --> 02:19:31,760
that

3862
02:19:38,150 --> 02:19:34,880
the good or value

3863
02:19:40,469 --> 02:19:38,160
was sort of a protogenitor of reality

3864
02:19:41,910 --> 02:19:40,479
that reality exists for the good

3865
02:19:44,309 --> 02:19:41,920
interesting

3866
02:19:46,070 --> 02:19:44,319
so you can read back into some people

3867
02:19:46,950 --> 02:19:46,080
are very specific like live units and

3868
02:19:50,389 --> 02:19:46,960
others

3869
02:19:54,309 --> 02:19:50,399
thinking of uh

3870
02:19:57,750 --> 02:19:54,319
of why things exist um

3871
02:19:58,469 --> 02:19:57,760
and i have uh uh on closer to truth.com

3872
02:20:00,550 --> 02:19:58,479
or

3873
02:20:02,230 --> 02:20:00,560
a piece called levels of nothing in

3874
02:20:04,790 --> 02:20:02,240
which i deal with

3875
02:20:05,510 --> 02:20:04,800
nine levels of nothing people talk about

3876
02:20:07,110 --> 02:20:05,520
nothing

3877
02:20:08,630 --> 02:20:07,120
they think they know what they mean why

3878
02:20:10,550 --> 02:20:08,640
isn't there not nothing

3879
02:20:11,910 --> 02:20:10,560
but in this piece i show that there are

3880
02:20:14,150 --> 02:20:11,920
nine ways

3881
02:20:16,150 --> 02:20:14,160
that nothing can be described so there

3882
02:20:18,469 --> 02:20:16,160
are nine levels of nothing

3883
02:20:20,790 --> 02:20:18,479
and what's fun to me is the nothing that

3884
02:20:21,830 --> 02:20:20,800
many physicists talk about the quantum

3885
02:20:25,429 --> 02:20:21,840
foam that

3886
02:20:29,030 --> 02:20:25,439
takes from nothing no space time no no

3887
02:20:31,030 --> 02:20:29,040
matter energy no no nothing and then

3888
02:20:33,510 --> 02:20:31,040
they you create a universe out of

3889
02:20:35,110 --> 02:20:33,520
nothing which many physicists believe

3890
02:20:37,349 --> 02:20:35,120
happened indeed may have happened that

3891
02:20:39,750 --> 02:20:37,359
way but that to me is my level

3892
02:20:41,670 --> 02:20:39,760
five nothing right because it presumes

3893
02:20:44,790 --> 02:20:41,680
the laws and so on

3894
02:20:46,790 --> 02:20:44,800
four levels of nothing less than that

3895
02:20:49,030 --> 02:20:46,800
in terms of what it is and let people

3896
02:20:50,309 --> 02:20:49,040
can look that up levels of nothing on

3897
02:20:53,429 --> 02:20:50,319
closer to truth.com

3898
02:20:54,550 --> 02:20:53,439
or nothing but this to me is the most

3899
02:20:56,870 --> 02:20:54,560
probative question

3900
02:20:57,990 --> 02:20:56,880
and the most exciting question uh you

3901
02:20:59,910 --> 02:20:58,000
know we know for sure there

3902
02:21:01,030 --> 02:20:59,920
is something you know but why that's the

3903
02:21:03,910 --> 02:21:01,040
case is uh

3904
02:21:05,830 --> 02:21:03,920
is a is a wonderful thing to delve into

3905
02:21:08,950 --> 02:21:05,840
neutrino a commenter i love says

3906
02:21:11,110 --> 02:21:08,960
robert i kind of love you

3907
02:21:12,230 --> 02:21:11,120
he also said well steve scully says

3908
02:21:14,150 --> 02:21:12,240
question for robert

3909
02:21:16,469 --> 02:21:14,160
just because something exists does this

3910
02:21:18,309 --> 02:21:16,479
necessarily preclude nothing from also

3911
02:21:20,790 --> 02:21:18,319
existing

3912
02:21:22,790 --> 02:21:20,800
yes i think it does some people would

3913
02:21:24,389 --> 02:21:22,800
would argue that

3914
02:21:27,750 --> 02:21:24,399
and many people said this and maybe when

3915
02:21:29,030 --> 02:21:27,760
you have your tetralemma theory of logic

3916
02:21:31,670 --> 02:21:29,040
you can have nothing and

3917
02:21:32,790 --> 02:21:31,680
something at the same time but i in my

3918
02:21:34,790 --> 02:21:32,800
simplicity

3919
02:21:37,030 --> 02:21:34,800
would say once you admit there is

3920
02:21:38,230 --> 02:21:37,040
something in one possible world out of

3921
02:21:41,910 --> 02:21:38,240
an infinite number

3922
02:21:45,270 --> 02:21:41,920
then by my definition there is something

3923
02:21:48,630 --> 02:21:45,280
and so once there is

3924
02:21:51,670 --> 02:21:48,640
something there can never have been

3925
02:21:52,630 --> 02:21:51,680
nothing in in the in the big sense so

3926
02:21:54,630 --> 02:21:52,640
once you admit

3927
02:21:56,950 --> 02:21:54,640
any kind of something in any kind of

3928
02:21:58,790 --> 02:21:56,960
possible world anyway

3929
02:22:01,429 --> 02:21:58,800
you've you've answered the question that

3930
02:22:04,230 --> 02:22:01,439
there is that there is not nothing

3931
02:22:04,790 --> 02:22:04,240
uh and that's pretty much uh you know

3932
02:22:07,590 --> 02:22:04,800
digital

3933
02:22:08,230 --> 02:22:07,600
on off uh the way i think about it that

3934
02:22:10,950 --> 02:22:08,240
doesn't mean

3935
02:22:11,830 --> 02:22:10,960
if you have something it can go back to

3936
02:22:13,990 --> 02:22:11,840
nothing

3937
02:22:15,670 --> 02:22:14,000
but if you have something that they will

3938
02:22:18,309 --> 02:22:15,680
never be the case ever

3939
02:22:19,270 --> 02:22:18,319
that there was never anything there was

3940
02:22:21,349 --> 02:22:19,280
always nothing

3941
02:22:22,950 --> 02:22:21,359
if you had something at one point then

3942
02:22:24,870 --> 02:22:22,960
there was something

3943
02:22:26,790 --> 02:22:24,880
last two pj wants to know about your

3944
02:22:28,550 --> 02:22:26,800
thoughts on ufo sightings and counters

3945
02:22:31,429 --> 02:22:28,560
seems to previously be getting laughed

3946
02:22:32,710 --> 02:22:31,439
at but increasingly taken more seriously

3947
02:22:34,550 --> 02:22:32,720
and then someone wants to know what your

3948
02:22:36,630 --> 02:22:34,560
thoughts are on life after death

3949
02:22:38,150 --> 02:22:36,640
pandaproducts wants to knows that so pj

3950
02:22:41,750 --> 02:22:38,160
what are your thoughts on ufo

3951
02:22:46,469 --> 02:22:45,110
yeah we do not deal with those kinds of

3952
02:22:48,550 --> 02:22:46,479
questions traditionally on

3953
02:22:50,070 --> 02:22:48,560
closer to truth i would also put another

3954
02:22:51,830 --> 02:22:50,080
category which we're asked about

3955
02:22:53,429 --> 02:22:51,840
even more often than ufos is a

3956
02:22:56,230 --> 02:22:53,439
near-death experiences

3957
02:22:57,190 --> 02:22:56,240
right great panda products these are not

3958
02:23:00,230 --> 02:22:57,200
categories we've

3959
02:23:03,270 --> 02:23:00,240
dealt with a little bit um but

3960
02:23:06,389 --> 02:23:03,280
these are the kinds of questions that

3961
02:23:07,670 --> 02:23:06,399
lend itself to kind of factual and

3962
02:23:09,910 --> 02:23:07,680
technical analysis

3963
02:23:10,790 --> 02:23:09,920
esp and parapsychology is another

3964
02:23:12,389 --> 02:23:10,800
category

3965
02:23:13,990 --> 02:23:12,399
that lends itself to these kind of

3966
02:23:14,710 --> 02:23:14,000
factual statistics and we don't we don't

3967
02:23:17,910 --> 02:23:14,720
deal with that

3968
02:23:19,429 --> 02:23:17,920
we have done with esp and parapsychology

3969
02:23:22,630 --> 02:23:19,439
the implications

3970
02:23:24,630 --> 02:23:22,640
so if parapsychology and esp are true

3971
02:23:27,349 --> 02:23:24,640
and we would define what that means

3972
02:23:28,389 --> 02:23:27,359
real phenomena in some sense uh what

3973
02:23:32,070 --> 02:23:28,399
would that imply

3974
02:23:33,910 --> 02:23:32,080
the nature of mind or physical it's

3975
02:23:35,110 --> 02:23:33,920
all different that's a legitimate closer

3976
02:23:37,670 --> 02:23:35,120
to truth area but

3977
02:23:39,590 --> 02:23:37,680
not to determine the statistical proofs

3978
02:23:40,469 --> 02:23:39,600
or not proofs of that that's that's not

3979
02:23:43,429 --> 02:23:40,479
what we would do

3980
02:23:44,950 --> 02:23:43,439
i put ufos in that same category i

3981
02:23:46,309 --> 02:23:44,960
personally would be a skeptic but i

3982
02:23:48,710 --> 02:23:46,319
don't consider myself

3983
02:23:51,349 --> 02:23:48,720
um sufficiently knowledgeable and i i

3984
02:23:54,230 --> 02:23:51,359
have noticed there has been more

3985
02:23:55,670 --> 02:23:54,240
attention lately to those kinds of

3986
02:23:58,710 --> 02:23:55,680
questions

3987
02:24:00,469 --> 02:23:58,720
you know they're all multiple answers

3988
02:24:03,030 --> 02:24:00,479
to that kind of question much like there

3989
02:24:04,790 --> 02:24:03,040
is to uh the fermi paradox of why we

3990
02:24:06,469 --> 02:24:04,800
don't see aliens there are

3991
02:24:07,990 --> 02:24:06,479
dozens and dozens of possible

3992
02:24:11,590 --> 02:24:08,000
explanations so

3993
02:24:14,950 --> 02:24:11,600
but um you know i i would remain

3994
02:24:18,630 --> 02:24:14,960
a skeptic on on ufos if ufos are

3995
02:24:21,510 --> 02:24:18,640
deliberately um uh i mean are

3996
02:24:23,190 --> 02:24:21,520
representative of alien civilizations uh

3997
02:24:24,870 --> 02:24:23,200
so far advanced uh

3998
02:24:27,110 --> 02:24:24,880
uh there was an article in the new

3999
02:24:29,349 --> 02:24:27,120
yorker about this recently and

4000
02:24:30,790 --> 02:24:29,359
i like the line because nobody addresses

4001
02:24:31,910 --> 02:24:30,800
why they're so advanced that so many

4002
02:24:34,950 --> 02:24:31,920
seem to crash

4003
02:24:37,590 --> 02:24:34,960
in area 51 if they're so advanced but

4004
02:24:38,150 --> 02:24:37,600
so i'm i'm pretty much a skeptic uh up

4005
02:24:41,590 --> 02:24:38,160
on that

4006
02:24:44,389 --> 02:24:41,600
as far as life after death um

4007
02:24:46,389 --> 02:24:44,399
i i think this is a uh this is a closer

4008
02:24:47,110 --> 02:24:46,399
to truth uh topic we deal with this a

4009
02:24:49,349 --> 02:24:47,120
lot

4010
02:24:51,030 --> 02:24:49,359
it obviously has to deal with uh the

4011
02:24:54,309 --> 02:24:51,040
nature of consciousness

4012
02:24:57,750 --> 02:24:54,319
and if consciousness is 100 physical

4013
02:25:00,389 --> 02:24:57,760
then there is no life after death um

4014
02:25:00,790 --> 02:25:00,399
if uh consciousness is something beyond

4015
02:25:04,230 --> 02:25:00,800
that

4016
02:25:06,550 --> 02:25:04,240
or if there is a non-physical

4017
02:25:08,150 --> 02:25:06,560
existence such as uh you know

4018
02:25:09,349 --> 02:25:08,160
traditional gods or some type of

4019
02:25:12,309 --> 02:25:09,359
spiritual realm

4020
02:25:13,750 --> 02:25:12,319
then there is a possibility of that i've

4021
02:25:16,150 --> 02:25:13,760
dealt with this in a

4022
02:25:18,070 --> 02:25:16,160
paper on uh an article i've written on

4023
02:25:19,750 --> 02:25:18,080
virtual immortality

4024
02:25:21,190 --> 02:25:19,760
yeah i write that one thank you for

4025
02:25:24,870 --> 02:25:21,200
sending that and

4026
02:25:26,230 --> 02:25:24,880
it's the diverse explanations of

4027
02:25:28,590 --> 02:25:26,240
consciousness

4028
02:25:31,990 --> 02:25:28,600
from pure materialism to

4029
02:25:37,110 --> 02:25:32,000
epiphenomenalism to what's called

4030
02:25:38,790 --> 02:25:37,120
non non-reductive physicalism

4031
02:25:40,389 --> 02:25:38,800
where it is physicalism but there's

4032
02:25:41,990 --> 02:25:40,399
something beyond that so quantum

4033
02:25:44,070 --> 02:25:42,000
theories of consciousness the different

4034
02:25:47,910 --> 02:25:44,080
aspects of qualia

4035
02:25:50,870 --> 02:25:47,920
to um to dualism

4036
02:25:53,590 --> 02:25:50,880
and ultimately idealism where everything

4037
02:25:55,990 --> 02:25:53,600
is consciousness or cosmic consciousness

4038
02:25:57,429 --> 02:25:56,000
and each of these have different

4039
02:26:00,550 --> 02:25:57,439
implications

4040
02:26:01,429 --> 02:26:00,560
about the nature of life after death as

4041
02:26:03,670 --> 02:26:01,439
well as

4042
02:26:05,270 --> 02:26:03,680
the possibility of uploading our first

4043
02:26:08,070 --> 02:26:05,280
person consciousness

4044
02:26:10,230 --> 02:26:08,080
into another medium which what i call

4045
02:26:10,950 --> 02:26:10,240
the techno optimists in silicon valley a

4046
02:26:13,990 --> 02:26:10,960
lot of people

4047
02:26:15,910 --> 02:26:14,000
assume that that is that is uh in a

4048
02:26:17,349 --> 02:26:15,920
hundred percent uh certainty it's just a

4049
02:26:19,030 --> 02:26:17,359
question of technology

4050
02:26:20,950 --> 02:26:19,040
and i would argue that's not the case it

4051
02:26:23,990 --> 02:26:20,960
it

4052
02:26:28,230 --> 02:26:24,000
to to to upload your first person uh

4053
02:26:30,550 --> 02:26:28,240
consciousness um is a deep philosophical

4054
02:26:32,070 --> 02:26:30,560
question it's not a i mean it's also

4055
02:26:33,910 --> 02:26:32,080
technological and

4056
02:26:35,510 --> 02:26:33,920
it would take me thousands of years to

4057
02:26:37,270 --> 02:26:35,520
be able to develop a technology not

4058
02:26:39,270 --> 02:26:37,280
decades or something but

4059
02:26:40,950 --> 02:26:39,280
even if you had the technology you

4060
02:26:42,710 --> 02:26:40,960
really have to discern what the nature

4061
02:26:44,309 --> 02:26:42,720
of consciousness is before you can do

4062
02:26:48,630 --> 02:26:44,319
that so questions of

4063
02:26:51,429 --> 02:26:48,640
of um of life after death

4064
02:26:53,750 --> 02:26:51,439
questions of uh uploading your

4065
02:26:56,870 --> 02:26:53,760
consciousness and questions of ai

4066
02:27:02,469 --> 02:26:56,880
super ai consciousness those are three

4067
02:27:04,309 --> 02:27:02,479
separate questions life after death um

4068
02:27:06,389 --> 02:27:04,319
uploading your own consciousness into

4069
02:27:07,590 --> 02:27:06,399
another medium and attaining some kind

4070
02:27:09,910 --> 02:27:07,600
of immortality

4071
02:27:11,030 --> 02:27:09,920
and ai super ai consciousness are they

4072
02:27:12,710 --> 02:27:11,040
kind of those are three separate

4073
02:27:14,150 --> 02:27:12,720
questions and i argue that they are the

4074
02:27:16,550 --> 02:27:14,160
same question

4075
02:27:17,190 --> 02:27:16,560
that you have that all three of them are

4076
02:27:18,950 --> 02:27:17,200
based

4077
02:27:20,870 --> 02:27:18,960
are founded on the same question which

4078
02:27:22,070 --> 02:27:20,880
is the the nature of consciousness you

4079
02:27:23,429 --> 02:27:22,080
can't answer any of those

4080
02:27:25,590 --> 02:27:23,439
you can't assume that you know the

4081
02:27:28,870 --> 02:27:25,600
answer to any of those unless you

4082
02:27:30,309 --> 02:27:28,880
have a prior um belief in a certain

4083
02:27:32,070 --> 02:27:30,319
theory of consciousness

4084
02:27:33,590 --> 02:27:32,080
robert had to go but luckily he was

4085
02:27:34,870 --> 02:27:33,600
gracious enough to answer some of the

4086
02:27:36,710 --> 02:27:34,880
questions over email

4087
02:27:38,710 --> 02:27:36,720
some listeners wanted to know what are

4088
02:27:39,270 --> 02:27:38,720
robert's thoughts on the demarcation

4089
02:27:41,270 --> 02:27:39,280
problem

4090
02:27:42,550 --> 02:27:41,280
robert said this the key test is

4091
02:27:45,190 --> 02:27:42,560
repeatability

4092
02:27:47,429 --> 02:27:45,200
an important probative question the next

4093
02:27:49,110 --> 02:27:47,439
question comes from abdullah khalid

4094
02:27:51,030 --> 02:27:49,120
could robert tell us about his best

4095
02:27:53,270 --> 02:27:51,040
interview experience

4096
02:27:54,070 --> 02:27:53,280
robert says which of your children do

4097
02:27:56,070 --> 02:27:54,080
you like best

4098
02:27:57,270 --> 02:27:56,080
if you picked a quote unquote best how

4099
02:27:59,750 --> 02:27:57,280
would others feel

4100
02:28:02,070 --> 02:27:59,760
another question viewers listeners asked

4101
02:28:05,429 --> 02:28:02,080
was who would you interview of the past

4102
02:28:07,990 --> 02:28:05,439
if you could robert says pascal

4103
02:28:09,429 --> 02:28:08,000
the next question comes from mj mcgoven

4104
02:28:10,550 --> 02:28:09,439
this one comes from the theories of

4105
02:28:12,790 --> 02:28:10,560
everything discord

4106
02:28:14,710 --> 02:28:12,800
i would be curious how robert kuhn

4107
02:28:16,230 --> 02:28:14,720
splits his time between his activities

4108
02:28:17,910 --> 02:28:16,240
what are some of the more surprising

4109
02:28:19,510 --> 02:28:17,920
things he's learned through his career

4110
02:28:21,270 --> 02:28:19,520
and if he has any advice for people who

4111
02:28:22,550 --> 02:28:21,280
want to follow in his footsteps like

4112
02:28:24,150 --> 02:28:22,560
maybe kurt

4113
02:28:26,389 --> 02:28:24,160
that reminded me by the way that i

4114
02:28:27,270 --> 02:28:26,399
wanted to ask robert kuhn what advice he

4115
02:28:28,950 --> 02:28:27,280
has for me

4116
02:28:31,110 --> 02:28:28,960
building theories of everything as a

4117
02:28:31,910 --> 02:28:31,120
combination of my quest to explicate

4118
02:28:33,750 --> 02:28:31,920
theories

4119
02:28:35,110 --> 02:28:33,760
as well as to build a community around

4120
02:28:37,190 --> 02:28:35,120
theories of everything

4121
02:28:39,510 --> 02:28:37,200
and as well as for me and the community

4122
02:28:39,990 --> 02:28:39,520
to advance the state of theories of

4123
02:28:43,110 --> 02:28:40,000
everything

4124
02:28:45,590 --> 02:28:43,120
in general robert kuhn said this

4125
02:28:46,230 --> 02:28:45,600
pursue your passion closer to truth its

4126
02:28:49,030 --> 02:28:46,240
ideas

4127
02:28:51,190 --> 02:28:49,040
has been my lifelong passion china for

4128
02:28:51,750 --> 02:28:51,200
came about accidentally some 33 years

4129
02:28:53,910 --> 02:28:51,760
ago

4130
02:28:57,030 --> 02:28:53,920
by the capriciousness of the world as it

4131
02:28:59,510 --> 02:28:57,040
were and it became a grafted-on passion

4132
02:29:01,670 --> 02:28:59,520
both closer to truth and closer to china

4133
02:29:02,870 --> 02:29:01,680
are based on my deep desire to learn and

4134
02:29:05,670 --> 02:29:02,880
to share what i've learned

4135
02:29:06,230 --> 02:29:05,680
the process as well as the content my

4136
02:29:08,070 --> 02:29:06,240
advice

4137
02:29:09,429 --> 02:29:08,080
keep doing what you're doing do what

4138
02:29:11,750 --> 02:29:09,439
works best for you

4139
02:29:13,030 --> 02:29:11,760
don't try to target demographics let me

4140
02:29:16,630 --> 02:29:13,040
know your progress

4141
02:29:19,750 --> 02:29:18,230
okay that was a marathon man that's

4142
02:29:21,270 --> 02:29:19,760
where we leave it

4143
02:29:22,950 --> 02:29:21,280
robert thank you so much it was a

4144
02:29:26,389 --> 02:29:22,960
pleasure it's it's still a pleasure

4145
02:29:28,070 --> 02:29:26,399
and it's a bit surreal although i'm

4146
02:29:29,670 --> 02:29:28,080
by the end of it now i've acclimated to

4147
02:29:31,990 --> 02:29:29,680
it but to see you because

4148
02:29:33,990 --> 02:29:32,000
when i was younger before i even started

4149
02:29:35,510 --> 02:29:34,000
theories of everything or a podcast

4150
02:29:37,110 --> 02:29:35,520
i would watch your videos and i found

4151
02:29:40,469 --> 02:29:37,120
them incredibly insightful

4152
02:29:41,590 --> 02:29:40,479
and i'm i'm fairly certain

4153
02:29:43,910 --> 02:29:41,600
much of what i think has been

4154
02:29:45,910 --> 02:29:43,920
unconsciously

4155
02:29:47,190 --> 02:29:45,920
and somewhat consciously to influenced

4156
02:29:50,550 --> 02:29:47,200
by you and

4157
02:29:51,910 --> 02:29:50,560
your show so thank you so much for

4158
02:29:53,429 --> 02:29:51,920
there's many people here in the chat

4159
02:29:56,710 --> 02:29:53,439
that is saying that they love you and

4160
02:29:59,750 --> 02:29:57,990
great girl enjoyed being in

4161
02:30:01,590 --> 02:29:59,760
congratulations on theory of everything

4162
02:30:02,309 --> 02:30:01,600
i think it's a it's a real contribution

4163
02:30:04,870 --> 02:30:02,319
and

4164
02:30:06,070 --> 02:30:04,880
we're on this journey together that's

4165
02:30:19,510 --> 02:30:06,080
for sure man